The A3's usefulness

[beenthere]

Well, a couple of weeks ago on the EBDE PNCO Course we were lifted in with A111's. They took four troops with cefo mostly but sometimes only three. Pretty cramped all the same, but enjoyable as I'd never been in a helicopter before. If you were carrying cemo would you have to take it off and put it on your lap or what?

When they have been refulled they will only take 3, equipment or not. and that's from one of the pilots that lifted our troops last week

[apod]

If troops with cemo are being carried the dauphin is used(at present).There just isnt enough room for a pilot ,crewman and four troops in a a111 carrying full cemo.
Jag,my comments stand.YOU are the one who said that jpb and i were full of shit.Who are you to say that either of us is????Does your extensive experience give you that right .I think not.

[JAG]

Jag,my comments stand.YOU are the one who said that jpb and i were full of shit.Who are you to say that either of us is????Does your extensive experience give you that right .I think not.

My extensive experience gives me the right to say that 4 does not equal anything other than 4.

It doesn't equal, for example, 5 which is the minimum number of troops that could have been in JPB's Alouette with CEMO allegedly, as he stated there was more than 4 in the stick. Neither does it equal 3 as per Beenthere, or 6-7 as per Turkey. It's a mathematical thing. 4 is a number which is only equal to itself, 4. Like 5=5, 6=6, 3=3 etc etc etc.

It's not something either you or JPB can argue with. Though I'm confident you will both try.

Therefore, either you or JPB, or possibly both of you and a couple of others who have given their opinions based on extensive experience or hearsay, don't know what the fcuk you're talking about. And are full of shit.

[FMolloy]

Jag,

Has it occured to you that the CEMO has changed over the years? Until the introduction of PLCE, CEMO consisted of 58 webbing with the large pack - a lot smaller & lighter than the PLCE bergen. Therefore it is quite possible for the A3 to carry more CEMO-equipped troops c.1990 than CEMO-equipped troops in 2005.

[FMolloy]

Just to expand on my last post.

A fully packed PLCE bergen adds 65kg to the weight of a soldier. A 58 large pack weighs less than half that, so four CEMO-equipped soldiers using 58 pattern will weigh in at least 130kg lighter than four soldiers using PLCE CEMO - that's nearly an extra person & bergen. Does anyone else think the extra weight of PLCE-equipped troops would make a difference to how much the helicopter can carry?

Or did I pull that argument 'out of my arse' as it was put by one of the boards more silver-tongued members?

[JAG]

And where did anyone mention 1990? I maintain that that was hauled from your arse in an attempt to get around the problems of 4=4.

Notwithstanding your imaginitive attempts to prove me wrong, I notice someone has moderated Apod's post which states that there is no room for anything other than four troops, CEFO & Day Pack, which would be roughly equivalent in size & weight to 58 pattern CEMO. While at the same time agreeing with your post that the A3 could have carried more than four troops with 58 pattern CEMO. And ignoring the posts of others who say an A3 could carry somewhere between 3-7 troops.

Unless of course there is a special 58 pattern CEFO which I never saw which has Tardis like effects on the internal dimensions of the Alouette, or the size and weight of the troops carrying it.

4=4

[FMolloy]

JPB is an old sweat, his CEMO is different to the current set up so it is quite possible he was in an A3 while carrying it.

Apod's post also said the A3 could carry 2 crew plus 4 bods. Now say you omit one of the crew and leave only the driver (which happens before you ask) what do get?

4+1=5.

[FMolloy]

While on duties in Cavan many moons ago, my platoon got to practice helicopter drills in an A3. We practiced getting & out and got to go up in it.

They got 5 troops in CEFO & the pilot in it at a time.

[Eddie Dillon]

Jag, you know you're an awful pain really. Some of this sarcastic stuff you come out with is really painful to read. Grow the hell up would you? You don't know it all.

And where did anyone mention 1990? I maintain that that was hauled from your arse in an attempt to get around the problems of 4=4. Loosen belt. Reach in rectum. Clench fist. Remove shit. And post.

4=4

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all
All we can hear is the sound of hairs being split. The Alouette's lifting ability is dependent on fuel load, crew load, outside air temperature and density, relative wind, length of take-off space available and the actual weight of the planned cargo. Some days it's four gun-carriers, somedays five, other times three. The same applies to all other helicopters. The Alouette has the advantage of a wide,long cabin but suffers the disadvantage of being deliberately restricted to using one door only (Air Corps policy). It also has the downside of being BLOODY noisy, so it's real hard to sneak up on anybody in one. When someone hovers one over a siege house, it's for the purpose of intimidation. If you want to find out what real Alouette combat ops were like, find yourself a South Effikan or a Rhodie.
regards
GttC

[JAG]

GTTC, I am obviously wrong and everyone else is right.

Apod is right to say that as a troop carrier it can only carry four. JPB is right that as a troop carrier it can carry more than four. FMolloy is right that as a troop carrier the A3 can carry five- although why you want to ditch the co-pilot is beyond me. Beenthere is also right in saying that after refuelling it's only three.

However, no-one is prepared to conced that 4=4, because I'm saying it.

[Big Al]

although why you want to ditch the co-pilot is beyond me.

Probably because the A3 doesnt have a co-pilot...

[JAG]

So what's the other crewmember for?

[Barry]

So what's the other crewmember for?

Loadmaster. Assists the pilot by operating as an extra set of eyes, and passing instructions to the pilot via intercom

[Vmax]

So what's the other crewmember for?

To help keep the A3 within allowable C of G limits when fully fuelled.