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  • Changes of names..

    So,the duty rumour is that the name of the organisation will change from Air Corps to Air Force, NS to Navy and Rangers to SOF. What does it gain the respective organisations apart from an admin headache?

  • #2
    No limit on Ambition.
    The Army still consider the AC and the NS as subservient to their purposes. i.e they exist to support the Army, in the same way Cav and Artillery exist to support Infantry. And while Army continued to have a final say over the purse strings, their growth has been stunted.
    In reality, the titles should have changed in the 70s, when the Officer commanding both stopped being a Colonel and became a Brig Gen.
    The ranger change is possibly to reflect recent changes with our neighbours, who's new Special forces Regiment are known as Rangers (RIR were not pleased). In addition You have the US Rangers, also a Special forces regiment. Neither are at the same tier as the Unit currently known as the ARW. When operating overseas, with other SOF units, it possibly nails your colour to the mast by being known as IRL SOF instead of the more ambiguous Ranger?
    As for admin headache, maybe the experience of 1st Armoured Cavalry Sqn, Formerly 1st Tank Sqn/1st Armoured Car Squadron, Formerly Carrier Squadron, Formerly Motor Squadron, Formerly Cyclist Sqadron....
    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
      So,the duty rumour is that the name of the organisation will change from Air Corps to Air Force, NS to Navy and Rangers to SOF. What does it gain the respective organisations apart from an admin headache?
      Officially changing the NS to Navy could possibly marginally help with recruitment too? Sure it's all about the 'branding' these days.

      @GoneToTheCanner

      Is that rumour a potential suggestion from the CoD report or a different initiative entirely?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Auldsod View Post

        Officially changing the NS to Navy could possibly marginally help with recruitment too? Sure it's all about the 'branding' these days.

        @GoneToTheCanner

        Is that rumour a potential suggestion from the CoD report or a different initiative entirely?
        From the CoD report according to the Indo article on it on Sunday.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post

          From the CoD report according to the Indo article on it on Sunday.
          I hadn't read. Thanks. I'll take a look.

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          • #6
            While it is still the GOC’s that have the power not DFHQ

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DeV View Post
              While it is still the GOC’s that have the power not DFHQ
              Is that your belief?
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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              • #8
                The INS -> Irish Navy change suggestion has been knocking around at *least* since the submissions for the 2015 WP. Also guess who owns the domain for navy.ie?

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                • #9
                  Look at what happens every four years. We elect a new Government, the names of the Departments get changed and a whole new raft of stationery, signs on doors, vehicles, buildings,mugs and plates,biros etc has to be changed and it costs a fortune. So,now,if the State changes the names of the organisations, many tons of documents will have to be changed along with every sign on a vehicle, aircraft, ship, truck, door,etc etc...and for what? It will come out of the DF budget,as per and some project will take a hit. Need new barracks? Sorry,not this year,we're changing signage so decent rooms will have to wait. It's a sop or an eff-off,really.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                    Look at what happens every four years. We elect a new Government, the names of the Departments get changed and a whole new raft of stationery, signs on doors, vehicles, buildings,mugs and plates,biros etc has to be changed and it costs a fortune. So,now,if the State changes the names of the organisations, many tons of documents will have to be changed along with every sign on a vehicle, aircraft, ship, truck, door,etc etc...and for what? It will come out of the DF budget,as per and some project will take a hit. Need new barracks? Sorry,not this year,we're changing signage so decent rooms will have to wait. It's a sop or an eff-off,really.
                    What vehicles? Only current signage is a plastic sticker on the window, worth a few cent.
                    In my organisation, we operate with legislation which changes at least once a year, making many of our official documents obsolete. You know what we do? We print what we need! Most of it is held on servers anyway. We got out of the habit of printing guides and forms in bulk about a decade or more ago.
                    In this case, its the first name change in a century, in the Case of the Air Corps, and 3/4 of a century in the Naval side. It won't be changed again.
                    Enough with the penny pinching. **** the 0.26% defence spend, that's history. MOVE ON!
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                    • #11
                      Thats interesting...I'm purely speculating here but could the change to SOF preclude an expanding of the Irish SF?

                      My understanding (from open source material) is that the ARW is very small.

                      So could this be a broadening of capability within which the ARW will sit as Tier 1 SF?

                      But supported by other arms (most likely infantry re-roled) to expand capability...if I was to make a UK comparison I'm thinking SFSG...sitting with the ARW within the SOF.

                      Just seems strange that a unit like that would bin their name as its a key part of their identity and heritage.
                      'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by spider View Post
                        Thats interesting...I'm purely speculating here but could the change to SOF preclude an expanding of the Irish SF?

                        My understanding (from open source material) is that the ARW is very small.

                        So could this be a broadening of capability within which the ARW will sit as Tier 1 SF?

                        But supported by other arms (most likely infantry re-roled) to expand capability...if I was to make a UK comparison I'm thinking SFSG...sitting with the ARW within the SOF.

                        Just seems strange that a unit like that would bin their name as its a key part of their identity and heritage.
                        the ARW has been supposed to be expanded since pre 2015

                        i think a SFSG type force was also proposed about the same time

                        ARW are our Tier 1

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                          Is that your belief?
                          DFHQ doesn’t have command of the DF

                          The Minister, under the Defence Acts, delegate command to the GOCs

                          its in the name….. Chief of Staff

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DeV View Post

                            DFHQ doesn’t have command of the DF

                            The Minister, under the Defence Acts, delegate command to the GOCs

                            its in the name….. Chief of Staff
                            That isn't the reality though.
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post

                              That isn't the reality though.
                              DFHQ has staff responsibilities not command

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