The Future

[The Blue Max Intelligence Officer Find all posts View Profile Close The Blue Max]

And thats the way it looks like it will go it seems on the fixed wing procurements in the next few years the Air Corps wants to aquire a credible tactical airlift platform (Not in class of Airbus A319/A320 etc) but more like of Lockheed Martin Hercules C-130J-30 or C-27J Spartan etc... The likes of Medium lift helicopters are abit off I would reckon the the Air Corps would like to finish up any future deals on future AB139s etc... Oh and about the Brits minding are airspace dont count on that indevinatly like new the accesion states to EU and Nato such as Slovenia,Latvia etc.. Ireland will as a indepandent state be expected to Secure its own airspace but this most likely will not be until the goverment realises it embarressment of riches when it sees the likes of Latvia and slovenia obtaining its own Air Defence Assets (Though this will probably be with NATO funding)
Only Time Will Tell

[GoneToTheCanner C/S Find all posts View Profile Close GoneToTheCanner]

Aidan
The Hungarians have operated under the WarPac set-up and basically have to scrap it and start from a clean sheet. It's like being Boeing for decades and suddenly going Airbus. There's a hell of a lot of changing to be done, at every level, from the most basic of supply problems to integrating a full Swedish-style air defence network.I'd say the Hungarians are having problems retaining skilled personnel and that the skills drain is slowing the process. If an airline like EI needs a two-year lead time to even begin to plan for a new type, think how long it takes for an entire defence system.
regards
GttC

[Aidan Closed Account Find all posts View Profile Close Aidan]

basically have to scrap it and start from a clean sheet

Not quite. They get to start again ... with the people and institutions who are trained, in place, and able to do the job anyways. The Boeing to Airbus analogy works in comparison with Ireland if Hungary were making the jump from B737 to A320, and the Air Corps were making the jump from DC-3s to A320s. They have experience, facilities, people, organisations and the doctrine in place. Ok, so they may have to change the organisation around and reskill in certain areas. Its still a lot easier than starting from nothing. They have large air bases with dispersed sites, facilities for storing and maintaining complex weapons, a supply of well trained ground crew, equipment for handling aircraft and fuel, trained GCI personnel (Swedish style ADF is not that different from the Voyska PVO Soviet system) and the legal, administrative and political systems in place to 'do' air defence. We don't.

Ireland will as a indepandent state be expected to Secure its own airspace

This has been the case since 1949, if not 1937. Nothing has changed to make this any more or less true, nor is it likely to.

[yooklid 6-40509-04014-7 Find all posts View Profile Close yooklid]

http://www.amarcexperience.com/AMARCTour.asp

here you go girls! you can all go window shopping

[Turkey Brigadier General Find all posts View Profile Close Turkey]

very little in Amarc is suitable to the IAC, a lot of aircrafts are in Amarc because their usefull life is over.
Hopfully if the Department of defence does buy aircrafts they will be new.
Anyway, it seems the current policy is to buy only new equipment.

[Guest Close Old Redeye]

"Ireland will, as a indepandent state, be expected to Secure its own airspace." - BM

Secure from what threat? Ireland is not the Baltic states with a covetous, wounded Russia next door and a long history of Russian domination. What possible threat exists over the next 25 years that could justify the expediture of hundreds of millions on flashy jet fighters that would spend their time performing at airshows and burning jet fuel as they lazed around over placid Ireland.

GET A GRIP - IRELAND HAS NO REQUIREMENT FOR FAST JETS.

Existing requirements are for:
1. tactical airlift - C-130J-30 or C-295
2. additional battlefied support helicopters - either a full complement of 8 A-149's (AW's new designation for the military 139) or 4x 149's + perhaps 3-4 Merlin Mk.3's
3. a new MATS jet - Bombardier Global 5000 to operate in conjunction with the Lear
4. a new multi-engine FW trainer and MATS/utility liaison back-up - a newer B200/B350 or C-90B

in concert with the above, the IAC must develop and exercise a deployable capability that can support/operate with Ireland's associated EU battlegroup partners - probably Sweden and Finland. This means a deployable detachment of 149's or Merlin types operating to the standards of the nascent European Battlefield Support Helicopter Force and trains regularly with Swede and Finn counterparts at least. This also means the airlift platform integrated with the emerging European Airlift Group based in Eindhoven and operating to EAG standards - with sorties allocated to non-Irish EAG requirements, and with EAG assets from other member states availabel to help deploy Irish contributions to the EU battlegroup scheme. This means facing up to the reality that the pre-9/11 Whitepaper prohibition on IAC international ops is dead on arrival. Integrated international military and humanitarian ops within the EU context is the primary mission set of the Irish Defense Forces after the minimal tasks associated with national requirements. Post-Liberia, as the EU battlegroups stand-up and european defense continues to mature, Irish forces will operate in more demanding theaters such as Afghansitan. That's what's coming - not expensive, useless fast jets.

Sorry for the long rant, but there you go.....

[Aidan Closed Account Find all posts View Profile Close Aidan]

The force is strong with this one.

My rants on the subject used to be like that, back in the day (wipes away tear). To have such enthusiasm again ...

[yooklid 6-40509-04014-7 Find all posts View Profile Close yooklid]

Oh Aidan-san. Weren't we all? Now I just resort to ranting about the search box. Or making snide suggestions, of course.

[Guest Close Old Redeye]

Here you go lads - a reasonable look at the future - a RDAF C-130J-30 departing Malta recently for Pakistan on a UNHCR mission to deliver goods donated by Malta. The a/c went on to operate from Incirlik, Turkey as part of the international airlift force supporting earthquake relief.

As for two objections to IAC airlift raised in this forum:
1. By joining the European Airlift Group based in Eindhoven NL, an Irish airlifter will contribute sorties against requirements generated by the EAG in response to EU-wide missions - international military and humanitarian ops and battlegroup training for example. In return, Ireland gains airlift support from the EAG for ops and exercises - particularly heavylift for helos, APC's, etc., taking advantage of the range of airlift capabilites available, including AN-124's on constant short notice charter by the EAG, and RAF C-17's.
2. The Irish airlifter will not have a primary role of flying out troops on international delpoyments, that will remain the purview of chartered airliners. But, in response to one critic, troops are regularly flown great distances in C-130's. I've done it myself many times. The primary roles of the airlifter will be:
a.) support international deployments, humanitarian crises and battlegroup exercises with tactical cargo lift, including aerial delivery by parachute and LAPES
b.) personnel/equipment/vehicle delivery in support of battlegroup advanced party deployment and for special forces rapid response, including rough field ops, night NVG ops, parachute delivery and tactical approaches and departures - think Afghansitan
c.) medical and other emergency evacuation of deployed personnel.

[Aidan Closed Account Find all posts View Profile Close Aidan]

8 A-149's (AW's new designation for the military 139)

Just spotted this. Not precisely true, the A 149 is a version of the AB-139 with a much more specialised military fit, including integral armour and full nvg capacity as standard. Much of this equipment will be fitted to the Air Corps aircraft on order as per the winning tender, but the aircraft will still be AB-139s.

http://www.agustawestland.com/produc...&id_product=29

[andy 4 Star General Find all posts View Profile Close andy]

Yes, thats the model old redeye. If we got two or three of them we would be flying. Literally. At the end of the day it all comes down to polical will and not finance.

[andy 4 Star General Find all posts View Profile Close andy]

Just spotted this. Not precisely true, the A 149 is a version of the AB-139 with a much more specialised military fit, including integral armour and full nvg capacity as standard. Much of this equipment will be fitted to the Air Corps aircraft on order as per the winning tender, but the aircraft will still be AB-139s.

http://www.agustawestland.com/produc...&id_product=29

It sounds better than the 139 but is the 149 unproven ?? It might be another dauplin.

[Aidan Closed Account Find all posts View Profile Close Aidan]

Essentially the A149 is an as yet not fully developed 'pure' military version of the AB-139. In reality, its probably just an AB-139 with a few extra add ons and some manufacturing changes. It has a slightly higher MTOW and a slightly longer range, for example, but the same engines as the 139. When developed, it probably won't look very different to the aircraft on order from DoD here, but it will be classified as a different model. By the sounds of things, it will have a more complex avionics fit, mainly to facilitate guided weapons.

The main potential structural difference is for the pylons, its never been very clear if they are going to be provided for on the aircraft destined for here. Apparently, it was originally suggested for the Korean contract, and will probably be offered for other competitions in the future.

[The Blue Max Intelligence Officer Find all posts View Profile Close The Blue Max]

What Really Is Coming Next....

We have all disscussed at lenght what the next procurement will be most likely to be the acceptance of the options on the AB139s etc but wat in the boards it the next real procurement the No.One Operations Wing will see coming on stream could it be

• Replacement of Gulfstream GIV with a new MATS jet e.g Airbus A319/A320 or Boeing BBJ or Bombadier Global Express etc...

• Procurement Of Credible Airborne Tactical Transport (Fixed Wing) e.g Lockheed Martin C130J-30 or C27 Spartan or EADS CASA CN295 etc...

• Replacement Of Beech Kingair with either similiar aircraft or more lighter twin engined equivilants possible replacements could be Rayheon Super Kingair 350,Raytheon 1900D or EADS CASA CN235 or lighter equivilant such as Beech Baron etc...

• Replacement of Reims Cessna C172 with modern equivilant in the class of the Pilatus Pc-12M,Pilatus PC-6M,Defender/Islander,Cessna Caravan or just new C172s etc...

So in the opinion of the board what is the most likely next procurement for No.One Operations Wing nor be them small nor big thats the aircraft im talkin about!!!

[morpheus Space Lord of Terra Find all posts View Profile Close morpheus]

Nothing until Gormanston is sold off... Where will this money come from otherwise?