Use of Garda Heli on Saturday

[dclimk]

lets not forget that the gardai don't fly the equipment so maybe it's the air corps who can't have pilots available.alot of people here like criticising the gardai, almost would make a visitor think our df were free of f*** ups

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi there
The helicopters are maintained by McAlpines staff, many of whom are ex-Donners.This has reduced the Donners vs Garda conflict that went on. Availability is, therefore (apart from the Defender) out of Baldonnel's hands, apart from provision of pilots. There is still an underthread of conflict between the Gardai and the Don, some of which is at command level and some of which is at Garda/techie level.
I still think the Defender is more useful "upstairs" rather than lurking around at low altitude.Also, if the Defender is operating at low-ish level over Dublin city center, it is not conflicting with Rwy 10 in any way.
regards
GttC

[Vmax]

One was operational!

RTE news at 9 o'clock.

No Garda heli available untill 3:55 pm Saturday due to tech problem, at last some hard facts provided by the public service broadcaster.:wink:

[Goldie fish]

You must be so proud of yourself.

It was still operational.

[Crumbs]

Is one of the helicopters now flying out of Shannon airport Ive often seen it flying over Limerick city or was it just a coincidence that I was in Limerick the same days as the helicopter?

[Goldie fish]

Coincidence.

[Vmax]

The origional question was why a heli wasn't available untill late Sat afternoon. The heli wasn't operational when it was required earlier on in the day. By the sounds of things niether heli was available, so the defender was used instead. I think it would be fair to say then a heli would have been first choice to monitor the march/ rioting, but becausce none were AVAILABLE/ OPERATIONAL AT THE TIME the defender was used. As this now seems to form part of the initial Garda enquiry into the shortfalls (mismanagement) of the event, as it was mentioned on the RTE news last night maybe lessons can be learned, then again maybe not.

[Bravo20]

"No helicopter was operational before 3.55pm" Yet when I left my house (at an undisclosed location 3 miles south of city centre) at around 3:15 there was a garda helicopter in the air in what looked like a position to observer the disturbances on Nassau Street.

[Goose]

In the end of the day, GASU was used. Although the helicopters would be better because of their manoeuvrability, the Defender would have been more then adequate to do the job. Remember in a city environment like Dublin, all the GASU would be mainly used for is to monitor the movement of large crowds where Dublin’s CCTV would be the main surveillance and most useful in helping identify suspects.

During the riots in Belfast in September last, the BA had the Defender up most of the time with at least 1 helicopter if not two. Even when choppers would leave to refuel, the Defenders stayed. This is because the trouble mainly occurred in area without any or at most very little CCTV for the police to use, thus their aircraft where their only good surveillance. The Gardai didn't have that problem in Dublin and so if anything, due to the Defenders endurance over the choppers, they probably saved taxpayers money!

This complaining about the Gardai's actions on the day seems to be complaining for the sake of complaining. They basically were over cautious this time because of the riots during the EU enlargement, when they were accused of being too aggressive! Now they're being accused of not being aggressive enough in dealing with the situation. Its crazy!

[dclimk]

This complaining about the Gardai's actions on the day seems to be complaining for the sake of complaining. They basically were over cautious this time because of the riots during the EU enlargement, when they were accused of being too aggressive! Now they're being accused of not being aggressive enough in dealing with the situation. Its crazy!

at last a rational opinion.
bravo mate
we are however outnumbered

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi all
Years ago, a Dauphin was trialled with a FLIR camera that could be synchronised with a machinegun;ie, wherever the camera was pointing, the tracers followed. Should we put the req in now?
regards
GttC

[jippo]

Few things you might want to think about
1) Before each flight an aircraft must be checked to make sure it is in fact safe to fly
2) Even if maintenance is carried out perfectly, an aircraft can become unserviceable at anytime, this is a safety issue.
3) this could happen both aircraft on the one day
4) there is always a rostered crew for the GASU aircraft 24/7.
5) Even with a heli, it cannot stay hovering for hours on end (this you mey have noticed if it has been in a hover around your area it will hover for a bit then it will need to do a circle or so, engine management)
6) If scumbags like what was on the streets on dublin on sat want to cause trouble, they will!
7)I've been at incidents and the news has reported supposing facts about them but as usual 50th hand information usually get slightly twisted, so exact times are not known by others than the aircraft crew and ATC.

If any of you fly I'm sure you'd agree you wound not get into an aircraft if you thought there may be a problem with it? Another thing you might realise if you do fly is that you have a greater aerial view if your that bit higher therefor the defender would be able to see which way trouble was moving and also other trouble then just the one street.

Im not in the PDF but do think its funny how Army, Army Air Corp, naval and equitaion are all part of the one organisation yet love bitching about each other so much!!!!

[Vmax]

Last night the evening herald ran with this story under the title "Garda chopper broken during mayhem". According to the paper the minister for justice was briefed by the Garda commisioner in relation to why a heli wasn't availible," the Garda helicopter was grounded from11.20am untill 15.55 hours"according to the GC. Mystery still surrounds the where abouts of the second heli.The briefing does not make clear which of the two heli's was hit by the technical fault. It also does not explain why the other wasn't available if one developed technical problems.

Simple questions that still havn't been answered by the GC,GOC.Would someone car eto enlighten me as to who is running the show. I am aware the engineering side of things is carried out by civies, maybe that is were the problem lies maybe not, I am also aware that the two heli's could have tech problems at the same time, but that hasn't been answered by the powers that be. If this entire operation was civil there would be financial penalties involved due to lost of service and you would be told when contract renewal was coming up " By the way,thanks but no thanks" .

With out giving any state secrets(anybody with an airband radio would have been able to listen) away here, as I understand it the Defender was used to provide top cover discretely(but still wery much visible) to menbers of FAIR as they travelled south to Dublin trouble free. This was not the case for the return trip due to the defender providing top cover over Dublin. As it happens some of the vechicles on their return trip north were damaged due to stone throwing in areas close to some of our provincial towns. Maybe that was just coincidence.

Personaly speaking I think Pat Kenny was right to ask the question. If there were problems with the heli's so be it, but this thing of been vague and lets cover our backs usually means lessons will not be learned.:confused:

[Goldie fish]

Pat kenny should know(stress should) that you won't find out the answers to these questions by giving half facts on a show listened to mostly by pensioners and housewives.

If he wants the answers, then he asks the minister directly. Or, he gets a TD to ask the question in the Dail, during the ministers presentation on the riots to the house last week.

As for tech problems, you are not reading what has been said here Pat.

[Vmax]

combined by the poor safety record of the type (255)in service in the UK. Quite a few of them have fallen out of the sky, and ours almost did.
_________________
Rememebr this one Goldie,

You posted this classic last November.Maybe the Aer corp pilots are refusing to fly 255 due to your words of wisdom last year and just didn't want it made public. If you were to bring part of your last post to its logical conclusion, every reporter, journalist, and public service provider should go the same route when asking legitimate question of the state.
Good one mate,

Pat.