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  • Turkey
    replied
    Talking of brilliant ideas!

    Whoever picked the A3 all those years ago deserve to be very pleased with themselves.The aircraft hasmore then justified the investment made in it. Even if they had only been involved in saving one life in the 40 years of service it would have been worth it.I am not sure what the number really is, so I will saynothing.
    But, when the replacement is picked, let's hope the choice is as inspired.

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  • Turkey
    replied
    poor ol' A3's

    Bailer, a reserve Air Corps sounds like a good idea. unless of course you happen to live in the one country in europe where no- one,[we are led to belive] gives a damn about defence. Doh!!!
    The problem with the A3's is their age, helicopters are essentialy modular, like steam locomotives, in theory they can last for ever, as all parts or sets of parts can be replaced independently of the rest, providing parts are available, and more importantly, at a reasonable price, Eurocopter may be unwilling to supply parts now for this venerable machine, as there are now far less in service then years ago.
    But also it's a very labour intensive peice of equipment, a more modern aircraft would need less looking after, that would suggest to me that even if a reserve were formed old A3's might not be the way to go, but it's still a brilliant idea.

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  • paul g
    replied
    Don't watch star trek so can't comment on klingon aggression.

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  • Come-quickly
    replied
    I'm not misquoting him to the extent of warping his intentions, it just came across as rather silly, to my shame I've just discovered that a relative has taken up employment in the Department....Boo hisss and all that.
    Very true on the Uni funding...but who ever suggested taking money out of the poor box; there are more than a few fat cows in this state which any marginally competent and incorrupt government could gently deflate to no ones great loss except the wearers of the GOlden Moo-moo's who aren't exactly an economic or social neccesity.
    Also if we had fighters we could blow things up, and that just appeals to me:D
    And never underestimate those Klingons, they killed kirks son you know...it's true

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  • paul g
    replied
    Regarding Smith's comments, didn't read the interview, was in italy at the time, but are you slightly misquoting him? Buying arms for the sake of buying arms is pointless and on that i agree with him,( the only real invasion threat comes from the Klingons) but equiping the defence forces to take part in modern peace support missions is different, and he has implemented steps in that direction.

    As for universities, having spent ten years in various places, don't be too down on Belfield CQ (what are you doing out there anyway?,though only when I went back there after five years away did I realise what a shit hole it is. As for working in them, compared to the U.K., academic staff in ireland have a better life. But when we talk about defence spending and government spending, we have to realise that Irish universities, to take another example, lack resources for serious graduate work, libary facilities are extremly poor, academics are relatively badly paid for the job they do which can be extremly stressful (compared lets say to Medical doctors who do research), and that lots of people would favour increased spending on those sectors before defence.

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  • Bailer
    replied
    Well if they still work use them. Why not get new heli's to replace them and use the A3's to set up a reserve Air Corps (now don't Laugh) but it could be utilised as an auxilary SAR SQN or something,
    They definately were value for money alas the only one I ever got close to (214) is used for spare's now

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  • Goldie fish
    replied
    Not only will Allouette 195 have served 40 years this november 25th,But the Pilot who flew it in Retired as GOCAC 14 years ago!!
    Aircraft delivered after its arrival ,no longer in service due to old age include..DH Dove,DH Chipmunk,Fouga CM170,BaE 125-600,BaE125-700, Beech SKA200(x2 of 3).

    I think they deserve a replacement. Could they be the Oldest military aircraft in constant frontline use?
    Definitely the Oldest Frontline Heli!

    Leave a comment:


  • Come-quickly
    replied
    Indeed UCD is described in a similar sense by a lecturer I know? It's hardly suprising that this state is full of sausage factories, I mean you just describe dexactly the type of self obsessed morons they produce (i.e. the electorate.)
    What I fear is more likely is that an AIII or two might fall out of the sky on some cute children/puppies and give the perfect ewxcuse to disband the AC for good.

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  • Aidan
    replied
    Paul G, UL isn't a University in the classical sense, its a degree factory ... and thats from former colleagues of mine who now teach there (and used to lecture elsewhere). They compare it to an advanced secondary school. It fills a role, delivers well trained and eminently qualified graduates to employers, just so long as they're not supposed to be able to think for themselves ... :p

    As for "willing to gut defence capabilities to satisfy the accountants" ... therein lies the rub, the AC never provided even a rudimentary defense capability, there is nothing substantial there to gut. As CQ said in his first post, all that ever existed was an Army support organisation in the manner of a 50/60s European Army. Looking at it from a purely financial perspective, if one were sitting around a table in D/Finance, all the AC does is provide some limited services (like some SAR, limited army support) that could possibly be more cheaply delivered by the private sector. As Paul says, how would you justify spending more money on something like this when there are other pressing concerns? Introducing a concept as nebulous as 'defence' is only going to raise the question ... "who's going to attack us?". Defence falls into the category of 'nice to have' for most people.

    And CQ, as for Smiths comments ... you've said it yourself, what do you expect? there are few votes in defence in this country, primarily because theres no public consciousness that its even an issue. Theres loads of votes in "lovey dovey peace to all men" type messages though. It has to be said that the DF have done better as regards investment under him than under anyone else previously, I mean, it could be worse, at least the RRF participation is going ahead. The Army will have 65 PIIIs in a few years, with an AML-90 replacement to follow. He might term it "investment in peace", what it means on the ground is arms purchases, even if they are limited in scope.

    Who knows, the AIII might even be replaced at some stage in the future too. Considering the first three airframes are theoretically 40 years old this year.

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  • hptmurphy
    replied
    True what about harriers and eh101 coparitly modren with acceptabbble service records

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  • Come-quickly
    replied
    I've been there didn't like it thats why I want to join the Army....I prefer 8 hour days with the occasional period of all out war

    You knw I'd normally agree about the minister but I found his comments in the sunday tribune hard to swallow; something along the lines of we don't believe in buying weapons we believe in investing in peace.

    The only people who can attest to Irish peace investment in effect are the Glencree reconciliation centre (E 2m) and the residents of at-tiri right after the AML-90 uninvited the SLA halftrack, I mean fair enough we are not a militarist state (thank god) but this is not a statement I welcome from the man with chief responsibility for the purchase of armaments and the maintenance of the armed forces of this state for the best meeting of the states security needs.

    Hhmmmmmm

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  • paul g
    replied
    The Piranhas are there for overseas peace support. the air corps problem is that it doesn't have that outlet. The army can justify Piranhas and things like the javelins by pointing out to their overseas role. The equipment needed for the EU-RRF to equip a battalion properly is still on course, despite the cutbacks.

    After going to my old wardrobe and putting my helmet on in anticipation of being shot at, I must admit that Smith has done a lot more then most; we might hate him, but he has done something, and who else can name another minister of defence? From my own experience i know that it is extremly difficult to suggest spending money on a project when you know that most people at the meeting think its an absolute waste that could be better spent elsewhere.

    Working 36 hours in two days is nothing son, wait till you get out into the real world.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Aidan reminded me about the classic comment about the MiG-21:

    "The MiG-21 is a fine aircraft, able to carry both fuel and weapons, but not at the same time."

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    UL became a real university when the local mammies started sending Johnny and Mary to UCC because UL was "too hard".

    As long as we have a civil sevice that is willing to gut defence capabilities to satisfy the accountants, then the defence forces will be on the back foot as regards capability. Is there anyone in government, do you think, that is on the side of the df? I read in a book on the df about civil servants in the DoD being scandalised when it was suggested to them that they should push for increased spending on the df. They replied that that was entirely a matter for the Dept. of Finance.

    So, no helicopters for the army. Do we really need Pirhanas then? Arty (what's the difference between an army and a militia?), mortars, we could get away without m203s couldn't we? Ah shur, mush me arse, God love her.

    100 million euro extra a year would transform the df with in five years and actually add value to the money spent on pay and allowances, etc. And 100 million euro is NOTHING. Seven and a half times that was wiped off the value of the value of the National Pension Fund (I don't care about interest earned and reduction in value of stock offsetting each other).

    You might as well be talking to the wall.

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  • Come-quickly
    replied
    For once and for all I was referring to the preceding 36 hours and no further in the library.
    Bah I never should have changed my name from arabic....and UL wtf? another jockfactory no thanks pal.
    NCO pilots are a great idea, they would not only allow the air corps the best pilots as opposed to the best from a suitable middle class rugby/GAA playing background but their presence would severely challenge the cushy lifestyles of those who think they've got a nice little earner running the don into the ground and playing golf with a certain well known businessman.
    Also it might bring a stop to enlisted A/C personnel being treated like dogsbodies regardless of their tech skills, I'm pretty sure that most mates[ RE: people who actually recognise me as a human being] I have in the army would just up and leave if they were treated the way some folk in BD are.
    And having known an A/C cadet or two in recent years I've heard some fairly frightening stories about soon to be commisioned idiots who couldn't handle a knife and fork (etiquette training and all that), down with the old boys clubs.

    Paul G I once again must admit that your list is superior to mine, I guess three wholly different airframes is too much for 50 men to maintain.
    RE: women in libraries I'm spoken for, by a person who I didn't meet in the library- in a strange contrast to the admittedly nice selection of womenfolk in the lib the GYM is always full of mingers

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