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  • #31
    Originally posted by Goldie fish
    They still have not decided whether the new machine wil replace the squirrell or whether it will operate alongside it.
    The decision was made. 255 will be replaced by a second EC135T2, provided(hopefully before the end of the year) by Mc Alpine. Parts commonality was the main reason, combined by the poor safety record of the type (255)in service in the UK. Quite a few of them have fallen out of the sky, and ours almost did.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Goldie fish
      The decision was made. 255 will be replaced by a second EC135T2, provided(hopefully before the end of the year) by Mc Alpine. Parts commonality was the main reason, combined by the poor safety record of the type (255)in service in the UK. Quite a few of them have fallen out of the sky, and ours almost did.

      Poor safety record???????.Care to elaborate on.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Vmax
        Poor safety record???????.Care to elaborate on.
        Situation involving GASU AS355N
        http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?...g=ENG&loc=1280

        Air International has identified weight problems with the AS355N as much of the equipment is fixed, whereas the much of the EC135's role equipment is fitted in a removeable pod.

        Also not all parts of the EC135T1 and EC135T2 are compatiale, they have different engines.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by DeV
          Situation involving GASU AS355N
          http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?...g=ENG&loc=1280

          Air International has identified weight problems with the AS355N as much of the equipment is fixed, whereas the much of the EC135's role equipment is fitted in a removeable pod.

          Also not all parts of the EC135T1 and EC135T2 are compatiale, they have different engines.
          Did I not read that the existing T1 has already been upgraded to T2?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by DeV
            Situation involving GASU AS355N
            http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?...g=ENG&loc=1280

            Air International has identified weight problems with the AS355N as much of the equipment is fixed, whereas the much of the EC135's role equipment is fitted in a removeable pod.

            Also not all parts of the EC135T1 and EC135T2 are compatiale, they have different engines.

            Dev,

            As i understand it the current 135 operated by the GASU has been upgraded to a T2.The incident quoted above was pilot error, nothing to do with the safety record of the heli type.

            Comment


            • #36
              If you read that report it mentions the large amount of accidents involving the type that year. Not specifically with the GASU. I recall a high profile Rally Driver was killed in one also not long ago. The Guy who bought L.E Deirdre was also Killed while flying in one...


              Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

              Comment


              • #37
                Goldie,

                The reason I asked you to elaborate was the last part of your previous thread was quite sweeping.The impression I got from it was that the particular type of heli had safety problems.Bertie Fisher flew the single engined type AS 350.What happened to him was the same as what happened to S 255,they both flew into cloud by mistake.Sadly Mr Fisher and some members of his family lost their lives.Both these aircaft were mechanically sound. You will find that approx 85% of aircraft accidents are down to pilot error.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I suggest that rather than blaming me for my opinion, you read the 255 incident report on AAIU website.

                  Its not my opinion, it is that of the Investigators of the Irish Aviation Authority.
                  http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/3977-0.pdf

                  A recent UK AAIB survey shows that since 1985 they investigated some 19 accidents and incidents involving AS 355 helicopters, five of which were totally destroyed.
                  Hardly a good safety record?


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Hardly a good safety record?
                    Compared to what, how does it compare to the numbers of Squirrels in circulation? What are accident levels for R22 and Jetrangers like comparitively?
                    .
                    .
                    .
                    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

                    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Goldie,
                      I am not blaming you for your opinion or anything else for that matter.The reasons you give for the purchase of the second 135 are "parts commonality was the main reason combined with the AS 355's poor safety record in the uk". You seem to be missing the point.I have read the AAIU report regardig S 255,I have also read the uk AAIB reports.These include N models,F1 models,F2 models.Out of the sixteen accident reports four were caused by mechical failures,most on F models,the remaining TWELVE accidents WHICH INCLUDED FATALITIES were caused by pilot error.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Parts commonality with the existing EC135T2. It will make the eventual handover of GASU ops to Non Air Corps operators a lot easier when only one type is in use. The Other issue which contributed to the Squirrels safety record was that of night flying. Having read the reports you will know this already, but Pilot training was always a weak area in the GASU, as there was no aircraft to train on. The squirrel, being the only one of type, already had a high workload, and time spent on pilot training was at best, minimal.
                        Given the current situation where the Air Corps now operate the EC135P2, and the future situation where the GASU will operate 2 EC135T2, the transition from other air Corps aircraft will be a much simpler process, as will keeping pilots qualified on the type.
                        As for Pilot error, it is a phrase often used when the controls of an aircraft worked against the pilot. It is also often used to pass off blame where the real cause is at a much higher level, i.e the aircraft was not suitable for the task it was intended for, in spite of the manufactuer stating otherwise, to ensure sales.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Standardisation of aircraft types between Aer Corps and GASU? Eventual hand-off of GASU pilot operations to non-Aer Corps personnel?

                          Look out for certain "soon to be retiring" or "just retired" politically connected officers starting a small law enforcement flight operations company or else landing senior management jobs with an already well established one.

                          Cynical? Never !!!


                          Later.
                          No-one, I think, is in my tree...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Coldie,

                            The parts commonality makes alot of sence, If you are suggesting operations been handed over to civies as well as the engineering end of things, thats a long way down the road I would think. The current 135 which sat in the UK for over a year was suppose to go on the civil register when purchased,that didn't happen due to certification problems with some of the equipment on board, so it ended up with a military number,I can't see that been changed. Lets see what reg either civil or mil will be on the new GASU 135.That will show you what way the powers that be are thinking in relation to this issue. In relation to the AS 355 not been up to the task for police work, I think its record speaks for itself.The GASU AS355 has been with the unit since 1998 flying according to the AAIU 1000 hours a year, thats twice the average commercial helis in Ireland fly. I say again pilot error been the reason for the report, although he did a good job getting himself out of that dangerous situation,others haven't been so lucky. The seventeen or so reports issued by independant investigators both here and in the UK (not influenced by manufacturers sales i might add) in relation to the AS 355 only three were about the "N" model, one was a mechanical problem(faulty luggage compartment door) the other two pilot error which included a fatality.
                            It's all there in black and white for people to read.Pilot error in these reports covers alot of things from heavy landings, to landing down wind, to settling with power, to been above MAUW, to hitting overhead power cables, to flying into cloud.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              relax d khacks!!

                              aside from all your theories surrounding future utilisation of the squirrel i have one. Am i right in saying the allouette(maby spelt wrong) is f***ed or will be shortly? the gazelle to maby? would it be possible for the squirrel to be stripped of its GASU colours and used to train heli pilots in Baldonnel? Im well aware of the of the recent arrival of the EC135's in case they are using them for training. i just thought that they might be better shall we say "combat ready"(aka S&R, army support).....any comments or has this subject already been and gone??

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Personally i would love top see the Squirrel being transfered to 302sqn to operate alongside the Eurocopter EC-135P2 utilizing the AS350 Squirell in the RISTA role (aswell capable on the EC135s) supporting Army Ground Elements providing Army Commanders in HQ with up to date intelligence of the battlefield or there Area Of Operations (AO) it be a great asset for training personnel in Kosovo like situations riot training while operating at night time with airborne C2 assets as well as under helicopter Searchlights the squirell are equiped with FLIR thermal imaging pod,TV camera package (mounted under the machine noise, NightSun Searchlight aswell as being able to be a airborne communications relay point (probly would be have to be have to retro-fitted for SINGARS)

                                It is also capable of carrying Armed Interdiction Teams (as dsiplayed on many occasions by Four Man Teams of the Emergancy Response Unit (ERU) so it would be easily capable of Carrying equivilant members of the ARW or insert other Army Recce Units Teams i.e Cav or Infantry etc.. As listed above are some of the tasks the helicopter could preform in the Army Support role and thats why i would leave to new modern EC-135s to train/refresh the new and current pilots utilizing it for traing aswell as it for it other alloted tasks but i have to say its great to see reasonable taught being put into the future use of such a still excellent helicopter such as the Squirrel!!!!

                                Oh by the way Failte go dtí an bord Squigs
                                British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
                                Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

                                [As the British flag comes down]

                                Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

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