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Agusta Westland AB139 for Irish Air Corps

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  • Please share.
    Sorry, unfortunately not the forum for that.
    However, Im sure that a correctly worded FOI would provide all the information you would like.

    Comment


    • If you can't back it up, maybe you shouldn't have brought it up?

      Comment


      • I didn't bring anything up.
        I just suggested that perhaps you aren't aware of the full circumstances of what did or didn't win the phase of the evaluation controled by Air Corps personnel and how you can actually find out.

        Just out of interest which do you think is more operationally capable as a military transport helicopter?
        Have you just answered the question?

        Comment


        • Operational evaluation? There was an operational evaluation?

          And the AW139 won out?

          That begs the question: what were the parameters?

          Comment


          • Black hawks were out of the price range but rated in the same category as UH 1s...and its derivatives almost diposable.

            EH 90 was a better machine and a better size.
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Seanachie View Post
              EH 90 was a better machine and a better size.
              If they were looking for medium lift.... which they weren't!

              Comment


              • NH90?

                Was never in the running. It's proving to be a bit of a disappointment by all accounts. A leaked German Army report listed numerous deficiencies. Sweden who will operate sixteen have just ordered, you guessed it, Blackhawks due to delays with the NH90 program.
                Last edited by Jetjock; 28 August 2011, 03:36.

                Comment


                • If they were looking for medium lift.... which they weren't!
                  they really didn't know what they were looking for....

                  Was never in the running. It's proving to be a bit of a disappointment by all accounts. A leaked German Army report listed numerous deficiencies. Sweden who will operate sixteen have just ordered, you guessed it, Blackhawks due to delays with the NH90 program.

                  Can europe not build helos any more?

                  What was the story with merlins?.
                  __________________
                  Last edited by hptmurphy; 28 August 2011, 04:30.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                  Comment


                  • Operational evaluation? There was an operational evaluation?

                    And the AW139 won out?

                    That begs the question: what were the parameters?
                    Eh, I think thats the whole point. Tender evaluations are broken down into more then one aspect. We know, because its on the ramp, that the AW139 won the overall tender but tantalizingly, did it win the operational aspects of the evaluation. What if the helicopter that won the OVERALL tender didnt win the operational evaluation** of the tender? What questions would that beg?

                    **By operational evaluation I do not mean an actual airframe flown in Ireland for Ops testing. DF orders are just to small for that. However this part of the tender evaluation would cover all operational aspects such as range, payload, military capability, maintenance etc

                    Black hawks were out of the price range
                    Compared to the AW139 brochure price or the actual post modification price?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Seanachie View Post
                      they really didn't know what they were looking for....
                      The AC/DOD were quite specific in what they wanted actually

                      http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...ead.php?t=4897

                      Read what relates to utility helicopter (ie the AW139)

                      In excess of 600 hrs annually (we could assume that due to cutbacks these hours aren't available currently - ie fuel etc

                      The evaluation included (in some cases a representative helicopter was acceptable)technical evaluation, examinations, flights, witnessing maintenance, consultation with existing operators, evaluation flights and in-depth evaluations. The locations were mutually agreed.

                      Design, manufactured & certified to JAR/FAR 27 or 28
                      Equipped to JAR-OPS 3 (subpart K and L)
                      NVE-compatible Glass cockpit
                      Fully duplicated 3-axis autopilot

                      Capacity to carry:
                      8 troops in light battle order in addition to 2 crew
                      Last edited by DeV; 28 August 2011, 09:56.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Seanachie View Post
                        they really didn't know what they were looking for....

                        Was never in the running. It's proving to be a bit of a disappointment by all accounts. A leaked German Army report listed numerous deficiencies. Sweden who will operate sixteen have just ordered, you guessed it, Blackhawks due to delays with the NH90 program.

                        Can europe not build helos any more?

                        What was the story with merlins?.
                        __________________
                        Didn't the Danes return their EHI01s to the UK recently when they found it didn't do what it said on the tin? 30% availability.
                        Canada too had big problems when they introduced them for SAR. They have 15 CH-149 Cormorants, but when it came to replacing the sea kings, their experience with the Cormorant made them chose the Sikorsky S92 instead.

                        It looks as if the Aircraft the Air Corps selected originally before the french decided to sue, has become the aircraft of choice.
                        Last edited by Goldie fish; 28 August 2011, 11:00.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                          Didn't the Danes return their EHI01s to the UK recently when they found it didn't do what it said on the tin?
                          I think they sold six that were due to be delivered to them to the UK to plug the gaps in afghanistan,and the plan was the danes would get models off the production line later on instead

                          Comment


                          • In excess of 600 hrs annually (we could assume that due to cutbacks these hours aren't available currently - ie fuel etc
                            This was never a realistic figure for the Air Corps and has nothing to do with cutbacks. Firstly the Air Corps didnt need 3600hrs per year from its fleet even if they could attain 600hrs per airframe per year.
                            Secondly with maintenance practices the Air Corps never ever had a hope of getting 600hrs per year from an airframe. Hence the fleet hours requirement was unrealistically increased to get more airframes to compensate for poor maintenance practices. This now leaves them severely under utilised, even in comparision to the Air Corps own stated requirement.

                            Proof is in the pudding; approx 33% serviceability and 1000hrs per year between 6 airframes.

                            Interestingly they did they same with the PC9s. 8 airframes each capable of 800hrs per year. 6400hrs per yr for training in the Air Corps??? They only recently broke 10,000hrs in total.

                            Edit: Just checked. 10,000hrs in Jan 2011. 10,000hrs, 7 years and 8 aircraft; 1428hr per year; 179hrs per aircraft per year
                            Last edited by Tadpole; 28 August 2011, 15:06.

                            Comment


                            • The AC/DOD were quite specific in what they wanted actually

                              http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...ead.php?t=4897

                              Read what relates to utility helicopter (ie the AW139)

                              In excess of 600 hrs annually (we could assume that due to cutbacks these hours aren't available currently - ie fuel etc

                              The evaluation included (in some cases a representative helicopter was acceptable)technical evaluation, examinations, flights, witnessing maintenance, consultation with existing operators, evaluation flights and in-depth evaluations. The locations were mutually agreed.

                              Design, manufactured & certified to JAR/FAR 27 or 28
                              Equipped to JAR-OPS 3 (subpart K and L)
                              NVE-compatible Glass cockpit
                              Fully duplicated 3-axis autopilot

                              Capacity to carry:
                              8 troops in light battle order in addition to 2 crew

                              Thats the spec that was issued but there were other machines that could have met that spec that were already in service and had a proven track record.

                              I think they sold six that were due to be delivered to them to the UK to plug the gaps in afghanistan,and the plan was the danes would get models off the production line later on instead
                              Seems to be the case. The EH101 was supposed to be a replacement for both the Seaking/Commando and the Puma in UK in use but it dosen't seemed to have worked out this way.

                              Again is success aligned with unit sales?
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                              Comment


                              • http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Nati...rs_655679.html

                                Looks like the mud slinging has started down under.

                                Comment

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