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Agusta Westland AB139 for Irish Air Corps

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  • Patricia Mc Kenna...

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    • Single engine is the major problem (eg EC120, Alouette, etc), hence they are more expensive.

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      • isn't one enough?

        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        Single engine is the major problem (eg EC120, Alouette, etc), hence they are more expensive.
        Why is a single engine a problem?

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        • Originally posted by carrington View Post
          Why is a single engine a problem?
          Having a single engine restricts an aircrafts us over water and urban areas.

          If it fails what do you do?????

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          • For the first time since the Puma the AC has a helicopter capable of offering a decent transport capability. Suggesting that they should have gotten smaller & less capable helis is madness, as is the idea that we rush them into overseas service.
            "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              Having a single engine restricts an aircrafts us over water and urban areas.

              If it fails what do you do?????
              Autorotation, gliding for helicopters.... Aren't all helicopter pilots taught this technique? I remember seeing Alouettes doing it when I was in Baldonnel.

              Do you mean that no single-engined aircraft (helicopter or fixed-wing) is allowed to fly over water or cities and towns?

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              • choices

                Originally posted by FMolloy View Post
                For the first time since the Puma the AC has a helicopter capable of offering a decent transport capability. Suggesting that they should have gotten smaller & less capable helis is madness, as is the idea that we rush them into overseas service.

                The fact that we will have a relatively small helicopter fleet was being used earlier in the discussion as a reason for not deploying them overseas. I was trying to make the point that this was the result of a choice made by Air Corps management: they could have bought a much larger number of aircraft, but the trade-off would have been smaller size and a reduction in capability. There is no perfect solution, but there are alternatives, it's a question of what the priorities are. Of course they shouldn't be rushed into overseas service, but equally they shouldn't be prohibited from ever being deployed overseas, which appears to be the current situation.

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                • Legally, single engine aircraft are prohibited from operating below 1500 ft over built up areas and cannot fly more than 3 miles offshore without flotation kit, evacuation lights etc. Military ops can currently get away with it to a certain extent, but that's not to say that it's perfectly safe. Twins are better operationally. Singles may be better for training, but you still have to train to fly a twin eventually, so starting on a twin when you will upgrade pretty soon is an advantage and speeds up the process. Military ops are shying away from singles across the world and many forces no longer teach the autorotation to completion with no engines engaged.

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                  • Originally posted by carrington View Post
                    Autorotation, gliding for helicopters.... Aren't all helicopter pilots taught this technique? I remember seeing Alouettes doing it when I was in Baldonnel.
                    It's one thing autorotating an al3 into the hundreds of acres that comprise baldonnel,it,s another kettle of fish ,i'm sure, trying to do it over a built up urban area. can be done, but would you really want to have to do it if it could be avoided.maybe a pilot could answer better
                    It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you have.

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                    • Originally posted by carrington View Post
                      Autorotation, gliding for helicopters.... Aren't all helicopter pilots taught this technique? I remember seeing Alouettes doing it when I was in Baldonnel.

                      Do you mean that no single-engined aircraft (helicopter or fixed-wing) is allowed to fly over water or cities and towns?
                      Would you be keen to try landing in this manner? Of course it doesn't mean that single-engined aircraft can't fly over water, but why would you choose such an aircraft over a more capable double-engined type?
                      "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                      • carrington,
                        Alouettes,like many other helis, autorotate like bricks. The military, not just the Irish, don't carry out autorotations to the ground, making ground contact, anymore because of the loss rate. Every Heli Flight techie will tell you of the hours spent repairing bent Alouettes after pilots had dinged the tail rotor guard during practise autos......Haughey prompted the change of policy from SE to ME helicopter use, for his trips to his island.....why risk SE over water if you can avoid it?
                        regards
                        GttC

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                        • I beg to differ, the A3s still carry out full engine offs to completion and haven't had a bent tail guard for 12 years. The collection on the hangar wall was pretty intimidating tho!

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                          • Hi Scorpy,
                            Every heli pilot, potential Alouette flier, was given the tour of the heli wall, to show where his elders and betters had ....ed up and caused bent tailrotor guards and associated loss of flight time. One hero had two to his credit. The message was driven home to them but good... I flew in a few of the auto practises and we did not touch down, rather the pilot flared and applied power and climbed away.The engine was not shut down but throttled down and the pilot only landed on for the last one. That was in 1995 so things have probably changed since then.
                            regards
                            GttC

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                            • Hi all
                              Heard from a source that one of the 139s suffered embarrassing(self-inflicted)damage during troop work and required input from the manufacturer to resolve.Naughty!
                              regards
                              GttC

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                              • There was one flying around the City center today..any one see it?

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