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FYI : Defence Forces Irish Language Scheme 2006-2009

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Docman View Post
    The C&S courses were never taught through Irish. It may have been a small part, but never a large element.
    Some of the communications being done through irish could be very handy as a secondary security measure. even if the enemy were able to break into SINGCARS secure channels they would have a problem with understanding Irish, although this would require more fluent speakers. As a lot of troops have difficulty with Irish it would be hard to break it as a code even after taking prisoners.
    The school of artillery told us it couldn't be done...
    They were wrong.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Docman View Post
      Very different nowadays.

      All drill orders are given in Pig Irish. We had a Fluent speaker give orders one time which led to total chaos..... because noone had ever heard the orders given in proper Irish before.
      This is just the same in English-speaking armies; a CSM in a Guard Regiment calls his troops to attention by uttering something along the lines of "Kamp'nee, SHUN!"
      Orders on the range are rarely given in irish.... it is too bloody dangerous to do so. The only time this is ever enforced (and usually with major objections), it is only done with senior and experienced shooters.... Most of whom wait till the officer stops talking (the cue to start shooting). It led to a major incident a few years ago during a brigade shoot when the Range officer paused to ask another a question only for the whole detail to assume he was finished and open fire, not knowing what he was actually saying.
      Range Orders at all competitions (Bde and All Army level) are given in Irish. They are not too difficult to learn, and do not constitute a breach of safety. The incident you refer to above is due to poor training and/or unprofessionalism, not any fault of the range officer.
      You will also note that all warnings are given in English. It should be in irish but noone in their right mind is going to say cease fire in Irish because they KNOW noone will understand them.
      Everyone understands "Stad".
      The C&S courses were never taught through Irish. It may have been a small part, but never a large element.
      Not 100% sure, but I believe that Cadet Training used to be lán-gaelach.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Parts View Post
        Range Orders at all competitions (Bde and All Army level) are given in Irish. They are not too difficult to learn, and do not constitute a breach of safety. The incident you refer to above is due to poor training and/or unprofessionalism, not any fault of the range officer.
        But it was ignored in a lot of Brigade (Well RDF anyways). The incident occurred in the first year that Irish was used (Well first time I had ever heard it at that particuliar copetition) and caused major consternation amongst competitors.

        I personally see it as a lack of professionalism to use Irish, and I doubt it would be used if there wasn't a specific AI saying to use it.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Docman View Post
          But it was ignored in a lot of Brigade (Well RDF anyways).
          I fired in a Bde and an All-Army FCÁ shoot in 1995, range orders were given in Irish on both occasions.

          The incident occurred in the first year that Irish was used (Well first time I had ever heard it at that particuliar copetition) and caused major consternation amongst competitors.
          Again, that's their fault, not the Range Officer's.

          I personally see it as a lack of professionalism to use Irish,
          Why? Because:
          I doubt it would be used if there wasn't a specific AI saying to use it.
          ...the AI you're referring to is actually a training manual. Are you saying it's unprofessional to follow Training Doctrine?

          Comment


          • #20
            personally see it as a lack of professionalism to use Irish and I doubt it would be used if there wasn't a specific AI saying to use it.
            How so

            surely because its an order that the range orders be given in Irish

            then its proffessional to do it so

            ie, your obeying orders

            surely its unproffessional not to do so

            ie your disobeying orders
            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
            Are full of passionate intensity.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Parts View Post
              I fired in a Bde and an All-Army FCÁ shoot in 1995, range orders were given in Irish on both occasions.

              Why? Because:...the AI you're referring to is actually a training manual. Are you saying it's unprofessional to follow Training Doctrine?

              I have also been in Brigade shoots.... a lot of them. Never heard Irish used until a few years ago. (Except for Falling plates comp)

              The directive can also be found in an AI.... and I have also found several instructions which countermand that directive...... So what's new.

              I believe it is a directive that is unprofessional and dangerous. Some Army doctrine agrees with my views, some disagrees.

              Comment


              • #22
                The directive can also be found in an AI.... and I have also found several instructions which countermand that directive...... So what's new.

                Oh

                Such as
                Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                Are full of passionate intensity.

                Comment


                • #23
                  So when you are mounting a security party to go to the range

                  "Attention"
                  "For Inspection - Port Arms"
                  "Ease Springs"
                  "Load"
                  "Slope Arms"
                  "To your Duties- Fall Out"

                  Is that what you use ?

                  PS Apologies if using incorrect English - I don't know exactly what it should be in English. Am I missing a major part of my DF Education ?
                  trellheim
                  Lord Chief Bottlewasher
                  Last edited by trellheim; 5 January 2007, 10:29.
                  "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                  "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    or training time could be better used and the commands given in english....
                    You're even dumber than I tell people

                    You might have been infected but you never were a bore

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Docman View Post
                      Some Army doctrine agrees with my views, some disagrees.
                      Ditto, but I still have to follow it, even those bits I don't like.
                      The directive can also be found in an AI.... and I have also found several instructions which countermand that directive...... So what's new.
                      Where/what? The Steyr manual would supersede Admin Instrs (if there are any) on matters of doctrine on use of the rifle.
                      I believe it is a directive that is unprofessional and dangerous
                      It's not a directive, it's doctrine. End of. It's not unprofessional, how could it be? People not properly prepared/sufficiently trained to go to the range (for whatever reason): now,
                      that's
                      unprofessionalism.

                      Originally posted by Big Al
                      or training time could be better used and the commands given in english....
                      It takes exactly the same amount of time to train someone to fire a weapon responding to commands in the Irish language as in the English language.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        One of the staff courses (think it was the C&S course) was definitely conducted through the medium of Irish (don't known when it was phased out, it could have been in the 50s/60s.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Parts, I'm with you; the only problem comes when people try and teach it in English during routine training, so confusing the issue.

                          I posted [ some time ago] the correct Application/Zeroing etc terminology ; if people want the rest just ask and I will try and get it for you, but it should be in the Man. Of Range Practices
                          "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                          "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Parts View Post
                            It takes exactly the same amount of time to train someone to fire a weapon responding to commands in the Irish language as in the English language.
                            i cant remember my name in irish never mind commands to fire a weapon, irish is dead, move along...
                            You're even dumber than I tell people

                            You might have been infected but you never were a bore

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Big Al View Post
                              i cant remember my name in irish never mind commands to fire a weapon, irish is dead, move along...
                              Can you remember "Aire, Seasaigh ar Áis," etc? Then you can remember "Lámhach, Sos, cúig uarchar," etc.
                              You're in the Irish DF, move along.
                              Guest
                              Guest
                              Last edited by Guest; 6 January 2007, 12:23.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I can because i heard them every week for 2 years, I'd be luckly to see a range more than once in a year....Just because we are the Irish DF doesnt mean we have to use some dead language.
                                You're even dumber than I tell people

                                You might have been infected but you never were a bore

                                Comment

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