FYI : Defence Forces Irish Language Scheme 2006-2009

[trellheim]

Sigh... it's there to show you what the minimum you have to comply with is. that's all

Just remember that if you're paraded or exercised on the range and you don't understand the Firing point officer's orders - he's within his rights to order you off the range. You're a safety risk.

[Parts]

Just remember that if you're paraded or exercised on the range and you don't understand the Firing point officer's orders - he's within his rights to order you off the range. You're a safety risk.

No, you're not. The Irish language, the reason for all that's wrong with this country and also why I can't get a girlfriend/buy a house in Galway/pay my TV license, is.

[hedgehog]

No, you're not. The Irish language, the reason for all that's wrong with this country and also why I can't get a girlfriend

I dont think its the ONLY reason, DCOS Parts ( Domestic Chief of Staff) would be the one

that springs to mind

[Parts]

Domestic Chief of Staff

I dare you to say that to her face.

[Laoch]

"Haigh bean a tí, is tusa an faidbh is mo atá ag Éireann."

[Docman]

Ever range practice I've ever been on in the last 9 years (including a number of All Army shoots and practices therefore) the OIC has given a brief as to what the practices are before the practice begins. At the vast majority of these either the OIC or IC Details reminder you before the next practice what this one is, eg lying at 200 unrested.

So you are basically saying that an english translation had to be given to you before they would even attempt to do a range practice in Irish.

An interesting programme caught my eye tonight. "No Bearla" on TG4 at 21.30hrs. Really showed how dead the language was. A guy went around asking people asking people if the Irish language was dead. But he did it in Irish. Most had no idea what he was saying, those that did basiacally said it was. The most interesting thing about it was the hostility that occurred towards him, especially from native born Irish people.

....and what followed was a conversation as gaeilge between the ops officer and the duty officer, to which the officer assumed both the Israelites and the enlistees were unaware of its meaning, assuming that in 1989, an Gaeilge was the preserve of the upper classes in classful Ireland at the time, the former I am not sure but thankfully in the latter case he was wrong in the case of two signallers in the centre at the time.

The Irish language (as a spoken language) tends to be the limited to lower classes in Ireland. Irish Literature is definitely a preserve of the upper classes.

[Parts]

The Irish language (as a spoken language) tends to be the limited to lower classes in Ireland. Irish Literature is definitely a preserve of the upper classes.

What?? Where are you getting that from?

[hedgehog]

Declan Kilbred came up with what I thought was a very good idea

Get rid of compulsory Irish and make it an elective in schools and colleges

Its reckoned that only 20% if students would opt for it

Kibreds idea was that it is better that 20% of students and young adults have a gra

for it and an ability to speak it

rather than the situation which exists now, where it is forced onto students

and they have no real affection for the Teanga

BTW I think its a great language and my one regret is that the asshole teacher

I had who was more concerned with telling us about how great the ira are etc

[Docman]

What?? Where are you getting that from?

Sorry. Currently doing a course on Nations & Nationalism. It is the thesis amongst most international professors.... Tom Nairn, Benedict Anderson etc. The irish language has many similiarities to Affrikaans in its historical & political development. A similiar thing happened to Afrikaans. The spoken language tended to be limited to the Voortrekkers, poor illiterate farmers. The written word was promoted by a few wealthy intelligensia. In fact, one of the main reasons for the survival of Afrikaans was the destruction of these Voortrekkers in the Boer war and the sidelining of Afrikaaners by the British dominated Government.

Basically. Very few people speak Irish every day. These tend to be limited to Gaeltacht areas. Lower class was probably the wrong word to use. But Irish Professors and literary scholars rarely speak the language.

Probably the biggest example of this is the difference between spoken irish and official written irish. It is the Governments (and preceding govts) insistence on promoting official irish over what IT sees as "Lower Class Irish" that has destroyed the language. Basically, the Irish that is being taught is based on literary Irish, it has little relevance in every day use. Hence people don't use it every day.

The entire approach to the Irish language needs to be overhauled if the language is to be resurrected.

[DeV]

So you are basically saying that an english translation had to be given to you before they would even attempt to do a range practice in Irish.

No what I'm saying is that the practice was explained in the most understood langauge (English) before the practice began - whether it orders were being given in Irish or English!

I think people are forgetting here that the Irish language is used on a daily basis by a huge amount of people - people who live in Gaeltacht areas, primary & secondary school students and teachers, people studying Irish in college, members of the DF, people who go to Gael Scoils (primary & secondary) to name some.

I try to use some Irish every day - even just one sentence. I was never good at langauges (including English) but I'd love to be able to speak it (and the other languages I learnt - English, French and German) well.

[DeV]

What the scheme means for the DF:

- 1 x Irish speaking SO in Press Office
- Irish language training
- Bilingual ID Cards, AFs (which will also allow them to be updated), advertising, posters, press releases, recruitment booklets, website, pre-recorded annoucements
- Availability of correspondence in Irish / English
- Phasing out of English only writing on DF equipment / vehicles / clothing (except those for overseas / fire / ambulance)
- Irish language spell checkers
- Survey of Irish speakers
- Irish to be working language of RDF units in the Gaeltacht
- Irish langauge stationary
- Update of military dictionary
- Irish language awareness element to all career courses

Some of these were already DF policy.

[Steamy Window]

Are the RDF getting DF ID cards?

[hedgehog]

Are the RDF getting DF ID cards?

Thats just crazy talk

[Parts]

It is one thing teaching people drill in Irish. You give an order , they carry it out. They don't need to understand it, just know what to do. Range orders are FAR more complicated than drill orders since there are many variations to the orders. People must understand the orders on the range.

Er, no. Knowing "what to do" is the same, whether the order is "Ar an Dheis, i líne, téigh," or "Cúig uarchar, ar do thairgéad chun tosaigh, id'am féin, lámhach." Range orders are not more complicated than drill commands. They take even less time to learn, because there are fewer of them. The reason people think drill commands are easier is because, by and large, range pracs are done in english, so range commands aren't used as often. Ever seen someone from Norn Iron trying to learn COFD?

[DeV]

You give an order , they carry it out. They don't need to understand it, just know what to do. Range orders are FAR more complicated than drill orders since there are many variations to the orders. People must understand the orders on the range.

All the actions carried out on the range are drill movements, apart from maybe fire, so the troops should be familar with some of the orders, or they haven't done guard mounting correctly.