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RDFRA in dispute with DoD

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    The real Jack
    Non Temetis Messor

  • The real Jack
    replied
    Just after the "Reorg" we were told by our new PDF CO(a particularly useless fat Comdt who has just retired. He managed to cause enough trouble in the barracks to cause one of our PDF CQ's to have a nervous breakdown) that pooled clothes were a thing of the past due to H&S. Seeing is beleiving in this organisation and as usual nothing changed. Sometimes the H&S goes to ridiculous levels, in Fort davis a cadre NCO told us to put on doulble hearing protection!

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  • luchi
    Cut backs

  • luchi
    replied
    Originally posted by Bailer View Post
    People are also not taking the "Gucci Factor" into account, a lot of People don't want rain gear because they get wet a lot, (In Fact I've seen people wear it on Sunny days PDF and RDF) they want it because its new and Shiny and not everybody has it. Simple FACT.
    Originally Posted by hptmurphy
    Ever try to spend a wet and windy day on top of an AML in a ****ing poncho?

    I don't need it for its asthetic qualities....I think it looks shite...but it is waterproof..and it is what I am supposed to be wearing!!!!!
    Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
    At no point did any posters specify they wanted DPM "gucci" wetgear, the posters specified that they wanted wetgear.
    Apologies I assumed reading these that people did want the gucci gear. I obviously miss read them!!

    I commend you for writing a post with no references to transport.
    That took a lot of self control but the facts are everyone looks for what they need and in my opinion should base their comments based on their own experience.

    I am sure there are a few around here that claim to need kit only because they heard someone say they do!!!

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  • Goldie fish
    Tim Horgan

  • Goldie fish
    replied
    To me, it appears the DF use the whole H&S idea as a shield or a sword to suit themselves.

    If H&S means they can prevent you from doing something you always do, say for example you are a bus driver or gym instructor in civvy street, they will prevent you from carrying it into military life, and quote H&S.
    However if H&S means you should be provided with protective clothing of some sort, then suddenly they find they are exempt from that duty of care.

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  • The real Jack
    Non Temetis Messor

  • The real Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by luchi View Post
    Does it?

    If you are required to wear a particular set of cloths, such as uniform or safey equipment, your employer supplies them or gives you expenses to buy them of you reclaim the cost from your income tax?

    If your job is in a factory your employer can not reasonably expect you to go out on a delivery truck and do the job unless you are supplied in the same manner with the necessary clothing.

    If your boss ask you to go out in the pissing rain to get him a breakfast roll what would you say?

    I am sure there are hundresd of examples in civvy street that people just would not do the job unless they were treated in the manner they thought was reasonable. Hptmurphy thinks it unreasonable to be on an AML on a cold wet and windy day without the latest gucci rain gear. So why do it then?

    Thanks for posting the tax legislation link I we meaning to look it up. Whats deferred pay though?
    At no point did any posters specify they wanted DPM "gucci" wetgear, the posters specified that they wanted wetgear. I commend you for writing a post with no references to transport.

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  • luchi
    Cut backs

  • luchi
    replied
    Originally posted by trellheim View Post
    it depends on what job you are in doesn't it ?
    Does it?

    If you are required to wear a particular set of cloths, such as uniform or safey equipment, your employer supplies them or gives you expenses to buy them of you reclaim the cost from your income tax?

    If your job is in a factory your employer can not reasonably expect you to go out on a delivery truck and do the job unless you are supplied in the same manner with the necessary clothing.

    If your boss ask you to go out in the pissing rain to get him a breakfast roll what would you say?

    I am sure there are hundresd of examples in civvy street that people just would not do the job unless they were treated in the manner they thought was reasonable. Hptmurphy thinks it unreasonable to be on an AML on a cold wet and windy day without the latest gucci rain gear. So why do it then?

    Thanks for posting the tax legislation link I we meaning to look it up. Whats deferred pay though?
    luchi
    Cut backs
    Last edited by luchi; 13 June 2007, 16:19.

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  • trellheim
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher

  • trellheim
    replied
    for ref this seems to be the current Income Tax Principal regulations

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/si/0559.html


    here is the section on grat [whoops, here is the correct one ]

    http://193.178.1.79/1997/en/act/pub/...zza39y1997s204
    trellheim
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher
    Last edited by trellheim; 13 June 2007, 15:27.

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  • trellheim
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher

  • trellheim
    replied
    it depends on what job you are in doesn't it ?

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  • luchi
    Cut backs

  • luchi
    replied
    Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
    ever decreasing circles..why do I bother.....
    Maybe because debate is good for democracy.
    But the DF is not,neverhas been and never will be a democratic organisation.

    So you want your rain gear when on your AML. What about the steel capped boots you are supposed to have when driving a TCV?

    Or the shoes you are supposed to have driving a saloon or mini-bus when in SD1?

    And it was decided years ago that the poncho although servisable was not sufficient when much superior equipment was available!

    Why is rain gear all thats on the agenda if you really believe you should be getting everything you are supposed to have?

    On the subject of purchasing kit. In your day job doyou purchase the supplied and equipment you need to do your employers work?
    luchi
    Cut backs
    Last edited by luchi; 13 June 2007, 14:59.

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  • hptmurphy
    Commander in Chief

  • hptmurphy
    replied
    ever decreasing circles..why do I bother.....

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  • luchi
    Cut backs

  • luchi
    replied
    Originally posted by hptmurphy
    Ever try to spend a wet and windy day on top of an AML in a ****ing poncho?

    I don't need it for its asthetic qualities....I think it looks shite...but it is waterproof..and it is what I am supposed to be wearing!!!!!
    And since you don't have it, next time it rains when you are on top your AML you have thevehicle stopped and request your officer to either give you and your crew the gear ao shelter until the weather improves.

    I can bet this will never happen

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  • trellheim
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher

  • trellheim
    replied
    There are plenty of ponchos in the stores .... this continual banging-on about raingear ; are any of your troops on the range with out it ? Are there spare ponchos ? Great. Pool system works.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bailer
    replied
    People are also not taking the "Gucci Factor" into account, a lot of People don't want rain gear because they get wet a lot, (In Fact I've seen people wear it on Sunny days PDF and RDF) they want it because its new and Shiny and not everybody has it. Simple FACT.

    Under H&S you're supposed to Wear a Helmet when Firing, and when in the Butts a Flak Jacket, these would probably be required more often than Raingear. But you don't see people Clamoring for Helmets and Flak Jackets, NBC Suits, or Proper Sleeping Systems, No they want the Shiny new raing gear to show off to everyone who doesn't have it...

    People Wearing Stuff on Building Sites and in Public is not only a matter for MP's but also for every Man NCO and officer.. If you know them report them. if you don't ask for their name rank or No, if they're not in the Miliary ASK them where it came from. Call the GS. It is your DUTY as a member of the Defence Forces to uphold military regulations and Law!

    Leave a comment:

  • luchi
    Cut backs

  • luchi
    replied
    Originally posted by hptmurphy
    we know the gear is there...we know why the allocations are restricted...if the stuff can be issued there should be a system if a guy wants to procure certain items above the scale of issue they should be available for purchase.

    In a ideal world you can request all you want ...all the request redresses etc....
    AFAIK the scale of issue is supposed to reflect the level of need. Inother words you are issued with all items you need to do the job. In this case if you need more gear it could be argued that you are doing more than is expected of you.

    How many days is a soldier supposed to wear each item before its needs to be washed? What is the proceedure to be followed when the items are being washed?
    I am sure that these questions are answered in a H&S statement some where.

    So if you are soaked in the rain and have no other gear surely that tells you that the DF do not expect you to go out in the rain.
    Surley all NCOs and Officers have a duty to enforce these rules and not be going about looking for lads to buy gear so they can do a job that the DOD and the military authorities obviously do not want done?

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  • trellheim
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher

  • trellheim
    replied
    Do they ? [ have an inspection ]

    If you've lost gear you must pay for it to be replaced [ this is the same for PDF as RDF ] . This is known as "on repayment" and has existed for donkeys years.

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  • Bravo20
    Commander in Chief

  • Bravo20
    replied
    First of all if you are not getting the kit you are entitled to issued to, it is the fault of the CQs, and as he is ultimately responsible, the sub-unit/unit commander. I know this because some units have no problem getting kit while others do (and they are drawing down from the same central stores).

    You do not have to wait 6 years or whatever the notional life is of the item, if the uniform is unservicable your unit/sub unit commander can sign off on a replacement.

    The previous arrangements regarding uniforms issue and officers, is that working dress/ Combats etc were issued (never paid for), they had to pay for the SDs.

    Finally, if you can't get clothing from the stores that you are supposed to be issued with, what makes you think those items will be there when you want to purchase them. They are either in stores or not. In fact you would have a perfect redress of wrongs if you requested an issue and were refused, and then went to purchase the item and it was subsequently made available to you.

    Also, our leaders are not communicating uniform issues up the chain. Whenever RDFRA ask Military authorities at different levels, they tell them that no problems have been reported to them (through the chain of command). So officers and senior NCO (both black hat and green) need to get their finger out.

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