RDFRA in dispute with DoD

[Poiuyt]

• Extremely one sided negotiations take place mainly through the Dept. Of Defence C&A Sections. One Military and the Other Civilian. When either refuses a claim RDFRA are in the extraordinary position of not having recourse to any dispute resolving mechanism. While recognizing RDFRA and its institutions in Legislation and their right to represent their members, the Dept. hold that, as the Reserve are volunteers they may not to be treated like part time workers and may not have access to a C&A scheme.
  
• RDFRA had been given an understanding that the matter would be reviewed following reorganization. However, the Department has now stated that that they do not intend to allow access to a C&A scheme at this time.
  
• RDFRA, having exhausted all options, are now in dispute with the Dept. and the Minister on this matter and must attempt to bring it to a conclusion by mobilising outside interested parties. We are requesting that you use all means at your disposal in supporting and advancing our case.

Extract from a letter we saw in our unit.

What do people think?

[Big Al]

RDFRA, having exhausted all options, are now in dispute with the Dept. and the Minister on this matter and must attempt to bring it to a conclusion by mobilising outside interested parties. We are requesting that you use all means at your disposal in supporting and advancing our case

I have been saying this for a while, that RDFRA should look beyond the current system to try and get issues sorted however people (you know who you are) said they couldnt, it is a welcome development however relying on members to plow their own furrow in regard to this is not very wise, they should organise their efforts centrally where members can feed into the rdfra system and tell rdfra of interested parties and then the "management" of rdfra can give the official line to the interested party, at least then the message is consistent, last thing you want is Billy Timmins or someone like that getting 300 emails from troops complaining they cant get a kit bag. For an important development like this i'm surprised it isnt on their website...

RDFRA had been given an understanding that the matter would be reviewed following reorganization. However, the Department has now stated that that they do not intend to allow access to a C&A scheme at this time

Is anyone really surprised by that?

[GodBlessS&T]

No.

[worldwalker]

Agreed Big Al,
RDFRA has to get on message with the main issue.

Banging on about clothing shortages all the time when the RDF get thousands of Euros worth of uniform every year when the army and government gets damn all value for it.

We need to show the public and the army what the RDF can do. Yes we have wasters, I have met some EXTREMELY strange people in it but I have also met some talented, motivated, skilled people with plenty to offer. It could attract the best of public life.

The government needs to be made get serious about what it wants from the organisation, pay it properly and train it properly, forget the "volunteer ethos" which lets them off the hook for their obligations.

Also, some RDF members need to see the big picture and grow up a little.

MY RANT OVER.

[DeV]

RDFRA has been looking for access to the C&A scheme and improved payments to reservists for at least the last 5 years (as long as I've been involved in it!)

[ODIN]

Right, a quick bitch, I'll start by stating that I have not recieved an item of issued clothing in nearly 5 yrs now, since I was a recruit. I am due a smock this year and only have 2 pairs of pants and 3 shirts, t-shirts are something I have bought in a large quantity cause frankly just having the 3 issued ones on a 2 week camp just does not do the job. The last thing I was issued was a set of no 1s.

So imagine my shock while sitting in work, an internet café for those who do not know me, when in walks a fella in an issue smock with 3 star rank markings and FFD in the pocket. I sat and stewed for a few mins bitching to some other RDF members on MSN, when the lad asked for my help with something. So I fixed his problem and anyway, I asked him where the smock came from, he informed me he had paid a mate in the PDF €70 for TWO, yes TWO smocks.

I find this terrible, active reservists cannot get a new issue of uniform but everybody else, including civvys seem to be able too. It would make one wonder what the RDFRA actually does for us, or for that matter what the Army actually sees us as doing.

[Bravo20]

Odin, that is an issue for the military police (see many threads on this topic).

The questions you have failed to ask are:
What is my CQMS doing for me?
What is my CO doing to ensure that I am adequately kitted out?

RDFRA got you the right to a reasonable issue, it is up to your NCOs and officers to ensure you get it. They have a job to do too.

[ODIN]

Bravo, that just makes me laugh...I know that is the way it is meant to happen...but alas, it is not the way it does...

[hptmurphy]

Simple as..bottom of the food chain..last to get issued..I'm in the same boat regarding kit..but there are far greater things that can impact on me..as for civvies buying kit..there has and never been anything done about it..so why loose sleep

Might be far better for the RDF if guys got out of bitching mode and went out and made themselves more available for worthwhile pursuits rather than sitting at home moaning about what they are entitled to..or what they think they might need.

Why do people bemoan kit issues....given the limited time actually spent on the ground why do we need to hoard kit?

Your a reservist...its not that you are going to have to turn out for a three weeker tomorrow morning.....surely you can make do with one smock for the amount of time actually spent training...I have only one..I manage....and I've had it 6 years..happy birthday to my smock

no one can pull me on a parade becuse..fact of life..I have but one..and its condition at times represents the amount of time I put in..if its manky I'm busy..if its clean I'm not....fact of life.

[Bravo20]

Bravo, that just makes me laugh...I know that is the way it is meant to happen...but alas, it is not the way it does...

I know but why do you think RDFRA is in a position to fix this, if the people who are supposed to do the work don't and those who are responsible for supervising the work the needs to be done don't. The DF is not run and cannot be run by the 13 person committee of the national executive. People (RDF and PDF) have the moral and actual responsibility to perform the tasks that allocated to them by virtue of rank and appointment. There are some very good CQs out there that make sure their troops are kitted out in accordance with the scale of issue (and more if they can get it), also there are some very good officers who are communicating problems up the chain of command, making deals and workarounds to ensure that their troops are appropriatly kitted out. The question is, if they can do it why aren't others?

[hedgehog]

he informed me he had paid a mate in the PDF €70 for TWO, yes TWO smocks.

This is simply scandalous- this makes my blood boil

everyone knows that 2 smocks retail for €80

[ZULU]

I think they might have been discounted on being without "wings"

[Parts]

This is simply scandalous- this makes my blood boil

everyone knows that 2 smocks retail for €80

I'd expect to get at least €80 for one.

[hptmurphy]

maybe it goes on size..you could get two small ones or one large one for 80 euro...

[Kieran Marum]

This matter was debated in the Dail [Wednesday 7th February 2007 [question 347]

Text as follows:

Defence Forces Reserve.
347. Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Defence his plans to give the Reserve Defence Force access to a C and A scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [4266/07]


Minister for Defence (Mr. O’Dea): Defence Force Regulations S.7 and its enabling legislation the Defence Amendment Act, 1990 provide for representative structures for members of the Defence Forces including the Army and Naval Reserves. The question of a Conciliation and Arbitration Scheme for the ranks represented by the Reserve Defence Representative Association (RDFRA) has been raised by representatives of the association in the past. I am conscious that RDFRA presents substantial issues on behalf of members. However, I do not feel that a C&A scheme is warranted. The PDF C&A scheme addresses issues affecting the livelihood of members of the PDF. The Reserve Defence Force (RDF) is a voluntary organization and members are not dependant on it for their livelihood. Members of the RDF automatically accrue the benefits of improvements in pay and conditions made to their PDF colleagues.

There are three (3) Conciliation and Arbitration Schemes in the country covering Teachers, Civil Servants and the Permanent Defence Force. Each covers an organisation with very large numbers of permanent employees.

Under existing arrangements, RDFRA has open access to both the Department and the Military Authorities. A number of meetings take place each year between the Association and officials of the Department and separately between the Association and the Military Authorities. The frequency of this interaction has increased in recent times reflecting the modernisation agenda that is being progressed. My Department has recently initiated a joint forum where RDFRA, the Military and officials from the Department meet to collectively discuss and progress areas of concern to members of the RDFRA. Any issues within the scope of representation (as set out in the C&A Scheme for RACO and PDFORRA), which the Association wishes to raise, are dealt with at these fora.

Significant progress is being made in the modernisation of the Reserve. The Reserve Defence Force Review Implementation Plan, which was formally launched in 2004, is progressing well. There is great credit due to both the members of the Reserve and their Representative Association for their contribution to this progress. Much work remains and ongoing dialogue between the Department and RDFRA is essential to the successful completion of the modernisation agenda. I remain sensitive to the concerns of RDFRA but am satisfied that there are processes in place to ensure that any issues that arise can be discussed and progressed. I will of course keep this situation under review to ensure that the good progress made to date continues into the future.