RDFRA in dispute with DoD

[Bitter Boy]

It is a pay off for a new recruit who has had to wait around 4 - 6 months getting security cleared, audio grammed and then medicaled to finally get something like a uniform on their backs.Once they get a uniform they can begin to feel like they belong to a 'military organisation'

[hptmurphy]

well thats bollocks..if waiting about to get a uniform is the pay off..maybe they misunderstand the reason for joining in the first place...the waiting etc..is probably justified given the amount in recent years who got the uniform and vanished..and its not just an NSR thing.

[master^decoy]

hhmmmm I don't know, like any job you never really feel like your "there" until your wearing the uniform. I used to work for vodafone and it took us ages to get some vodafone fleeces off them, blood from a stone...a rich stone...but still,it made you feel part of the team, thats the point of a uniform is to unify a group of people who have the same purpose and presence. The uniform gives pride of place too and is the basis for a team....it's very important really...

[DeV]

The Minister still believes RDFRA shouldn't have access to the DF C&A scheme (due to the nature of reserve service).

[Goldie fish]

Like those who have their own raingear for example.

The shirt I was issued with differs from the shirt now on issue. Should I seek a replacement, given that rank markings(which I have not been issued with anyway) are not available for this shirt?

Is it reasonable to expect a human to wear the same item of clothing until it no longer exists? Clothing, particularly workwear, such as the Combat Uniform(DPM) has a fixed lifetime. What items of clothing in your civvy wardrobe, kermit, do you still wear six years after you first bought it? Please include only items of clothing you wear at least once a week, and wear for 2 to 6 weeks during the summer.

Please also tell me the type of footwear that you still wear six years after you first bought them, so I can go out and buy a pair. What great value they must be!

[ZULU]

My initial issue parade boots 1999!!! Still going strong. although in another year I reckon i could use them as skates from all the threads being worn down!!

[Goldie fish]

I still Have the boots I was issued in 1992.

Never managed to break them in. I use them as parade boots.

[luchi]

The Minister still believes RDFRA shouldn't have access to the DF C&A scheme (due to the nature of reserve service).

And that it is considered that any decision made will also apply to the RDF

Surely the replace policy is only right. As a driver / instructor I am a lot "lighter" on my clothing than say a section IC in the infantry. If you wear out the clothing it is replaced. It is only if the wear was caused by you being negligent that any cost would be levied.

Again the actual equiptment required to efectively carry out your duties should also be a determining factor and not, as is the current case, a blanket issue.

[Bailer]

People who have Replacement Kit have Gone looking for it. and those who have Wet Gear and other issue items not on our scale have got it the same way they have always got it... Beg Borrow or "Acquire".

I haven't gotten a New Field Dressing in 11 years... (I'm sure its still Sterile after all those years on my crotch in the OG's as a Pte, A Pots Course and Std's Course) I don't have DPM raingear. but I have more issue kit than I can physically pack in a Kitbag, bergin and suit carrier.

What RDFRA are trying to do is make sure this kit is ISSUED to us, we start asking for a Purchase Scheme then we will never Get it issued!!

[luchi]

Originally Posted by Goldie fish
Like those who have their own raingear for example.

Pool issue I can assure you.

And this puts us back to the start of all arguements.

Everyone at this point knows rain gear is supposed to be personal issue.

It was agreed sometime ago that on H&S grounds it should be. It's not, so why?

IMHO Like many things, agreement with DOD and putting scale of issue into place are two different things.

One arguement for non issue was that the turn over of RDF personnel makes it un-economical to issue items.
And a second was that lads that drop out or only turn up occasionally wear the issue clothing on building sites.

Both arguments are relevant but should be a matter for the MPs / GS.(miss use of government property). All property not duely depreciated should be returned.

I believe the reason there are two reasons for non issue

1. Its not there
2. There is no pressure from the ranks

Every unit has their COs inspection. Why do people always wear their best? I always believed that if the gear is worn out you bring it to the Q. If he does not have it replaced you wear it on the COs inspection.

[Bravo20]

First of all if you are not getting the kit you are entitled to issued to, it is the fault of the CQs, and as he is ultimately responsible, the sub-unit/unit commander. I know this because some units have no problem getting kit while others do (and they are drawing down from the same central stores).

You do not have to wait 6 years or whatever the notional life is of the item, if the uniform is unservicable your unit/sub unit commander can sign off on a replacement.

The previous arrangements regarding uniforms issue and officers, is that working dress/ Combats etc were issued (never paid for), they had to pay for the SDs.

Finally, if you can't get clothing from the stores that you are supposed to be issued with, what makes you think those items will be there when you want to purchase them. They are either in stores or not. In fact you would have a perfect redress of wrongs if you requested an issue and were refused, and then went to purchase the item and it was subsequently made available to you.

Also, our leaders are not communicating uniform issues up the chain. Whenever RDFRA ask Military authorities at different levels, they tell them that no problems have been reported to them (through the chain of command). So officers and senior NCO (both black hat and green) need to get their finger out.

[trellheim]

Do they ? [ have an inspection ]

If you've lost gear you must pay for it to be replaced [ this is the same for PDF as RDF ] . This is known as "on repayment" and has existed for donkeys years.

[luchi]

we know the gear is there...we know why the allocations are restricted...if the stuff can be issued there should be a system if a guy wants to procure certain items above the scale of issue they should be available for purchase.

In a ideal world you can request all you want ...all the request redresses etc....

AFAIK the scale of issue is supposed to reflect the level of need. Inother words you are issued with all items you need to do the job. In this case if you need more gear it could be argued that you are doing more than is expected of you.

How many days is a soldier supposed to wear each item before its needs to be washed? What is the proceedure to be followed when the items are being washed?
I am sure that these questions are answered in a H&S statement some where.

So if you are soaked in the rain and have no other gear surely that tells you that the DF do not expect you to go out in the rain.
Surley all NCOs and Officers have a duty to enforce these rules and not be going about looking for lads to buy gear so they can do a job that the DOD and the military authorities obviously do not want done?

[Bailer]

People are also not taking the "Gucci Factor" into account, a lot of People don't want rain gear because they get wet a lot, (In Fact I've seen people wear it on Sunny days PDF and RDF) they want it because its new and Shiny and not everybody has it. Simple FACT.

Under H&S you're supposed to Wear a Helmet when Firing, and when in the Butts a Flak Jacket, these would probably be required more often than Raingear. But you don't see people Clamoring for Helmets and Flak Jackets, NBC Suits, or Proper Sleeping Systems, No they want the Shiny new raing gear to show off to everyone who doesn't have it...

People Wearing Stuff on Building Sites and in Public is not only a matter for MP's but also for every Man NCO and officer.. If you know them report them. if you don't ask for their name rank or No, if they're not in the Miliary ASK them where it came from. Call the GS. It is your DUTY as a member of the Defence Forces to uphold military regulations and Law!

[trellheim]

There are plenty of ponchos in the stores .... this continual banging-on about raingear ; are any of your troops on the range with out it ? Are there spare ponchos ? Great. Pool system works.