Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

RDF officers v FCA officers

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • RDF officers v FCA officers

    Anyone noticed the difference between these two groups since the Re-Org?

    An example of what I mean,

    Pte X wants to do a weapons course during the summer, sticks his hand up when asked for volunteers for the course. X's name put on a list and given to (A) an RDF officer or (B) an FCA officer

    (A) RDF officer gets course details from unit running the course. Goes to stores and puts in requests for gear required for course well in advance, gets other forms required for participation in the course i.e. ARP sheets, medical forms etc. Liases with Cadre staff in case he's forgetting anything. Then goes and organises transport for Pte. X to get down there. As well as making sure he's getting paid, getting rations and has accomodation. In some cases RDF officer will organise last minute range practices/TOET's to make X eligible for course.

    X goes on course, shows up first day on time with all the necessary paperwork and equipment. Passes course and is now qualified on a new weapon and comes back a better trained member of his unit. Goes on to a promotions course and can now pass on what he learned to his own unit. Hi-fives all round and everybody's happy.



    (B) FCA officer gets course details, adds them to pile of papers on his desk only making note of the time the course starts, where it is and who wants to go on it. Totally forgets about it until Pte. X reads course details himself and asks for the gear required from Q. Officer suddenly remembers he's responsible for that.

    Talks to PDF cadre who inform him that he's left it too late and that it would not be possible to requisition the gear in the short amount of time. Officer roots around the stores managing to get some old bits and pieces of the required equipment thats falling apart. Gets the rest from people in the unit.

    Manages to get some of the required documentation. Informs those who have not done the required TOET's/ARP's that they are not eligible for the course but that he'll see what he can do. Does nothing about organising ARP's/TOET's but tells them to just show up that it will be grand. Doesn't organise transport but instead tells one of the lads with a car to drive the rest of them down. Pte. X asks what if they aren't allowed to do course because they don't have required gear/forms. Officer replies "Don't worry it'll be grand as long as you're down on the course they have to let you do it. Just show up and you'll be fine"

    Pte. X shows up first day of course without all the required forms/equipment. Orderly Sgt. asks for his forms, X hands him crumpled up bits of paper which make up about half of the required documentation. Orderly Sgt talks to officer in charge of course. Explains that X does not have the items listed on the course requirements. Then goes back to X and tells him that he cannot do the course. X sent home.

    X does not go on his promotions course because he does not have a certain weapons course done. Has to wait another year for the chance to do it again. X leaves a few short months later and keeps gear.





    I'm bringing this up because this hasn't stopped at the reorg and continues day to day in the reserve. The FCA officers are mostly in senior positions and can therefore do more damage. They don't seem to realise that the old FCA days when you could just turn up and "Ah sure they'll have to let you do it." are over.


    Rant over.
    To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

  • #2
    I agree. Some Old FCA officers are quite content to just turn up occasionally and "be in charge", without having any input past the reading of notices from HQ, or taking a parade.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow... seems like a damning inditement of FCA officer mentality... Im out too long to contibute to the posts, but would like to hear other opinions... Obviously, Im for the approach of Option a, the RDF officer...
      "There is nothing braver then the heart of a volunteer" Lt. Col. Dolittle, USAC, 1941.

      Comment


      • #4
        To be honest, in my experience the "RDF Officer" you have described above probably does not exist! But I've given my opinions on our gentlemen more than once on this board so I'll hold off.
        "Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper"
        Gen. Robert E. Lee

        Comment


        • #5
          No there are some brillant RDF officers out there and the best part is they're becoming more and more numerous. The only problem is that sometimes there hands are tied by senior officers who have their own (wrong) way of doing things.
          To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by HavocIRL View Post
            No there are some brillant RDF officers out there and the best part is they're becoming more and more numerous. The only problem is that sometimes there hands are tied by senior officers who have their own (wrong) way of doing things.
            How is this so.

            The name of the FCA was changed to RDF.

            All the same people are running the show.

            They pick those they know or assume they know will do things their way to be promoted.

            The only difference I see is there is a smaller Cadre and so less people to blame.

            Over the years I have seen many energetic Lts slowly get worn down by the system. Why would anyone assume by changing the organisations name that this would change?

            I wait in hope but I must say I do not have as much faith as you.
            Without supplies no army is brave.

            —Frederick the Great,

            Instructions to his Generals, 1747

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by luchi View Post
              How is this so.

              The name of the FCA was changed to RDF.

              All the same people are running the show.

              They pick those they know or assume they know will do things their way to be promoted.

              The only difference I see is there is a smaller Cadre and so less people to blame.

              Over the years I have seen many energetic Lts slowly get worn down by the system. Why would anyone assume by changing the organisations name that this would change?

              I wait in hope but I must say I do not have as much faith as you.
              Because under the re-org the reserve is doing more and the RDF officers get a chance to shine and take advantage of a new set up.
              To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by luchi View Post
                Over the years I have seen many energetic Lts slowly get worn down by the system. Why would anyone assume by changing the organisations name that this would change?
                You can't blame them were in most cases JNCOs who hoped that by gaining a commission they could change things...

                Comment


                • #9
                  'All the same people are running the show'

                  Nope the reserve unit commanders are now running the show in the past our unit commanders were PDF.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HavocIRL View Post
                    Because under the re-org the reserve is doing more and the RDF officers get a chance to shine and take advantage of a new set up.
                    Yeah but who is noticing.? The same old farts?

                    Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    You can't blame them were in most cases JNCOs who hoped that by gaining a commission they could change things...
                    I don't blame them. I believe they should be encouraged as much as possible. That way for every 20 or so that make capt maybe 1 will retain that enthusiasm end that 1 will find more of his ilk and gradually improve the lot of all under them.

                    I live in hope but then I am a dreamer.......

                    Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                    'All the same people are running the show'

                    Nope the reserve unit commanders are now running the show in the past our unit commanders were PDF.
                    The PDF COs we had, in tpt, were always good. The problems lay below them. NOw they are not there things have not become any better.
                    Last edited by luchi; 24 June 2007, 21:53.
                    Without supplies no army is brave.

                    —Frederick the Great,

                    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      While agreeing with Havoc's statement, I would like to bring up the point of personal responsibility. These cover off on 2 areas (ARPs and fitness).

                      If an individual intends to go on a course in the coming year, he/she should ensure that they have the required pre-requisites covered off. Most of these requirements are not state secrets. Lets talk specifically about promotion. Under the current regieme you wil have to have your ARPs complete (usually Steyr plus one other weapon) and a fitness. Most units have their ARPs scheduled in early in the year (in our case late Jan early Feb). If you intend going on a course in the coming year make sure you are on those.

                      Unless you are confident in your fitness, it will take some time to build yourself up to the required level. If you intend to go on a course in the summer then start training for the fitness in January (or before).

                      As regard to notification, equipment, rations, pay and transport. I agree with Havoc. The ARP thing bugs me a bit, as my unit held 3 ARPs early in the year and yet we were still running around arranging for additional dates for certain people.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Are running around.
                        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bravo20
                          If an individual intends to go on a course in the coming year, he/she should ensure that they have the required pre-requisites covered off. Most of these requirements are not state secrets. Lets talk specifically about promotion. Under the current regieme you wil have to have your ARPs complete (usually Steyr plus one other weapon) and a fitness. Most units have their ARPs scheduled in early in the year (in our case late Jan early Feb). If you intend going on a course in the coming year make sure you are on those.
                          I have seen units where people are just not told anything. ITs are organised and the person is told at the last minute and don't have the equipment needed to complete the ITs. I have seen a unit where the troops have to go to another unit to get the info they need for courses. I have even seen a Sgt get dates from his unit for camp, different dates from another unit for the same camp, book his holidays based on the second set of dates and have his unit tell him at the last min that the second set are correct. A lot of people don't trust their own units to provide them with anything.

                          __________________________________________________ _________________________________

                          What I have found is that many FCA officers are unwilling to put their necks on the line. RDF officers end up doing most of the work and get more than their fair share of abuse. Then, the one time something goes wrong (And murphys law says it will), the FCA officers create a S$%&storm over it.

                          RDF officers who do put through the paperwork and therefore get access to training and equipment face another S$%&storm from FCA officers who complain they didn't get access to it and if they had the same facilities as an RDF officer (such as a biro.... or a brain) they would also achieve the same results.

                          Finally there is the RDF officer who looks like getting assigned a plum position only to have FCA officers complain, moan and cause a S$%&storm over how they never get anything/don't have access to stores/have a sore thumb and can't lift a biro. Suddenly an FCA officer is assigned the position amidst much back slapping etc. and talk of how they managed to "show those A/B/C/D coy lads what for". Job gets forgotten about until last minute. Suddenly the FCA officer realises the whole thing is too much for them and goes on a conveniently timed holiday/sick leave/sore thumb. Suddenly no FCA officer can be found to do the job as all have holidays/sick leave/sore thumbs and RDF officer gets dumped with all the paperwork etc. at the last minute. Course/Camp/Training barely scrapes through due to many sleepless nights and hard work on the parts of a lot of people. Finally on the last night, all holidays/sick leave/sore thumbs are cured and all FCA officers descend on the training to receive the thanks and back slapping of a job well done and to criticise the RDF officer for the things that went wrong.

                          Last edited by Docman; 25 June 2007, 15:59.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Plenty of competent people on both sides. FCA / RDF not a worthwhile divide yet if ever.


                            perhaps the old quadrant is applicable to inject a little lightness into it... judge for yourself where your own officers fall

                            http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Dec/miltruism.html
                            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am a little lost now.

                              How do you know the RDF officer from the FCA one?
                              (And please don't say the RDF officer is the one working)

                              Or do you just mean the young and new officers versus the old?
                              Without supplies no army is brave.

                              —Frederick the Great,

                              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X