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Debate on Fitness & how ITs should be introduced for RDF

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  • Debate on Fitness & how ITs should be introduced for RDF

    The one single change I would make to the RDF to improve it is institute an annual fitness test. Like the ARPs it would be no pass = no camp. Maybe I’m getting older and crankier, but on my camps this year I’ve despaired as I gazed at the sullen, overweight teenagers (in maturity terms) in front of me. A fitness test would be a good start in reminding the kids that the RDF is more than turn up and collect your money.

    Also, this was the first year I’ve seen the negative aspects of A7. The problem with A7 is that we err too much on the side of caution – rather than being told what we can do, we are told what we can’t. Bullying and harassment are totally unacceptable, but enforcing discipline is surely a necessary part of any military activity. While I might sound pretty old school, the lack of discipline on my last camp led to a serious incident with weapons which could have had catastrophic consequences.

  • #2
    Originally posted by SAM View Post
    The one single change I would make to the RDF to improve it is institute an annual fitness test. Like the ARPs it would be no pass = no camp. Maybe I’m getting older and crankier, but on my camps this year I’ve despaired as I gazed at the sullen, overweight teenagers (in maturity terms) in front of me. A fitness test would be a good start in reminding the kids that the RDF is more than turn up and collect your money.

    Also, this was the first year I’ve seen the negative aspects of A7. The problem with A7 is that we err too much on the side of caution – rather than being told what we can do, we are told what we can’t. Bullying and harassment are totally unacceptable, but enforcing discipline is surely a necessary part of any military activity. While I might sound pretty old school, the lack of discipline on my last camp led to a serious incident with weapons which could have had catastrophic consequences.
    Here here SAM on A7 (tell us what is acceptable, not what is not)

    On fitness, all for it eventually, but if you have that next year I more of less guarantee you that the already low numbers on camp will be halved, try doing training and duties then.

    It needs to be gradual, fitness isn't something that you click your fingers and it happens. What do you do if someone has a long term injury/illness for example? IMO it should happen something like this:

    Organised PT session on every training weekend ALL ranks, EVERYONE NOT LD/ED/ON DUTY
    PTL courses for RDF personnel (every sub-unit should have one minimum)
    Recognise civilian PT qualifications of PDF & RDF personnel
    Access to barracks gyms on camps/weekends
    Medical officers comes to unit to do medical (outside military post)
    Access to sufficient drinking water & showers!!
    Lessons on nutrition, health, fitness & general well being
    Shown correct methods of warm up/cool down/press up/sit up

    If this is introduced an entry fitness test must be introduced first, it is unfair to RDF personnel (to immediately have to pass ITs), you need to do it to get into PDF!

    Year 1:
    During camp - Fitness assessment at start of camp (entry fitness test), daily progressive PT sessions, fitness assessment at end of camp (entry fitness test) - those you aren't well motivated will notice their improvement.

    Later in the year - IT test (could be introduced for unit assessments).

    Year 2:
    As above except aim from Grade 4 in ITs.

    Year 3:
    Mandatory ITs for ALL RANKS - pass/fail - I think it should be necessary to get the new improved gratuity, not go on camp, we would be left with no one.

    But I think ITs should be mandatory (it is already for some) for personnel going on ALL career courses (including officers - lead by example & from the front) / courses with a physical element. On these courses it is my belief that it should be part of a prelim weekend not just left to the unit to organise.

    A major problem is the fact you HAVE TO do a medical first (at least in RDF, I know it doesn't always happen in PDF).
    Last edited by DeV; 10 July 2007, 21:13.

    Comment


    • #3
      Don't some sub-units parade twice weekly? Why not make that the standard and have one parade night dedicated to PT? (where possible, I know some places just don't have showering facilities and so on).
      Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
      Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
      Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
      Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

      Comment


      • #4
        I disagree with spending training time on fitness. Night parades should be used to learn military skills. Fitness is a lifestyle choice, not something that can be taught over an hour once a week. I don’t think it’s too much to ask to request RDF members to buy a gym membership or invest in a few lessons with a fitness coach before hitting the road for a run a few times a week. By all means arrange sessions with a Barrack PTI if possible but lack of these should not be an excuse. I’d go a step further and say no fitness = no RDF. What DeV said makes a lot of sense tho.
        "Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper"
        Gen. Robert E. Lee

        Comment


        • #5
          Yeah but the thing is most sub units don't parade twice weekly, if you were to have a second night where time was spent on PT (ok you have to do more than once weekly) it would be a good idea and you're not cutting into time spent learning skills anyway, this time is beyond what would normally be spent on RDF.

          Personally I'd consider fitness as a very important military skill, but maybe that's just me. Even if the extra sessions were run fortnightly, at least it would mean that RDFers had consistent access to fitness training of some sort that isn't going to cost them a fortune. Viking, with a gratuity of 112 for ptes, how can you justify telling them to go fork out to join a gym? If the new gratuity comes in then yes, good idea to spend money on it but otherwise no.
          Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
          Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
          Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
          Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

          Comment


          • #6
            I agree with Viking. The 2hrs of training on a weekday should be learning specific military skills and maximum exposure to weapons and equipment.

            Anyone can do excercise - pushups, situps, walk, run etc. Diet also has a major role as the two cannot function without support from the other.

            People need to start realising that the RDF is not there to be a social binge drinking club. Its the reserve defence forces of our country. Some (after hearing reports this week) need to make up in their mind that our country deserves nothing short of full commitment, professionalism and enthusiasim to defending it and its interests.

            You are either a soldier or you are nothing but a person in the army
            "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by johnny no stars View Post
              Personally I'd consider fitness as a very important military skill, but maybe that's just me. Even if the extra sessions were run fortnightly, at least it would mean that RDFers had consistent access to fitness training of some sort that isn't going to cost them a fortune. Viking, with a gratuity of 112 for ptes, how can you justify telling them to go fork out to join a gym? If the new gratuity comes in then yes, good idea to spend money on it but otherwise no.
              Sweet suffering jesus. YOU DO NOT NEED A GYM TO GET FIT!

              Will people who are pushing for Gym access this and PTI that, realise that all is needed is to get up of your arse, stop eating whole tubs of Ben and JErry's and go out for a run or a walk with the dog, do some pushups and situps in the morning and evening. If you live near water go for a swim! The cold aone will burn hundreds of calories!
              "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ZULU View Post
                Sweet suffering jesus. YOU DO NOT NEED A GYM TO GET FIT!

                Will people who are pushing for Gym access this and PTI that, realise that all is needed is to get up of your arse, stop eating whole tubs of Ben and JErry's and go out for a run or a walk with the dog, do some pushups and situps in the morning and evening. If you live near water go for a swim! The cold aone will burn hundreds of calories!
                What I was referring to with that was:

                Originally posted by Viking View Post
                I don’t think it’s too much to ask to request RDF members to buy a gym membership or invest in a few lessons with a fitness coach before hitting the road for a run a few times a week. By all means arrange sessions with a Barrack PTI if possible but lack of these should not be an excuse. I’d go a step further and say no fitness = no RDF. What DeV said makes a lot of sense tho.

                I don't use the gym anymore myself.. I find it boring and running on a treadmill is monotonous and I tend to feel sick when I get off it. What I was saying overall though isn;t actually disagreeing with DeV. I just think that if ITs are to be introduced for the RDF (which they most likely wil be at some stage) then weekly fitness training should also be introduced. Once a week isn't enough to pass unless you're fit to begin with and are also spending more time training. It just means that people are less likely to injure themselves training and more likely to do the right exercises.

                Case in hand: guy at the fitness tests was on the mat beside me. Couldn't do a SINGLE sit up. Said he'd been doing different ones and showed the guy taking his score that he could do the other one but just couldn't do the DF one. Weekly PT would eliminate silly failing like that.
                Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
                Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
                Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
                Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

                Comment


                • #9
                  No. A silly failing like that could be avoided if he took on board what a PTI or the An Cosantoir/Connect article said about the situps.

                  The onus of Physical fitness is on the individual, not the DF. We all know how to run. We all know how to walk. 1min and a PTL / internet! can show you how to do all the relavent excercises needed.

                  But this is moving more towards the Physical Fitness thread than the title of this one
                  "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We all know, do we???

                    One of the lads on the std cse kept failing the ITs because he was doing the excercises wrong.

                    Different people need to do different excercises to maintain the correct level of fitness. Going for a walk or run may not give you the required upper body work out and incorrect sit-ups and press ups can do more harm than good.

                    If you want the "new reserve" to be fitter you have to help it along. I don't think that everyone needs their hand held but monthly or bi-monthly assessments would go a long way.
                    If people don't get on board then yes give them a kick and cut the grat.

                    This thread has wandered before, I'm sure it will wander back again
                    Without supplies no army is brave.

                    —Frederick the Great,

                    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Anyone notice that few (if any) DF publications with regard to training mention training nights, they all mention field days / weekends and full time training.

                      In the UK, the TA will pay for members to join a gym. Why should people have to pay for gym/fitness coach to be taught PT, nutrition etc when it won't be taught the DF way and the skills are already in the organisation?

                      Personally if we had the time weekly organised training sessions would be great, realisitically may be once a month would be better.

                      All training in the DF assumes people know nothing, eg hygiene & sanitiation, organisation of the DF, marching (basically an exacturated walk) etc - as sure we won't teach them this it is available on the net!

                      Candidates who wish to prepare for the above tests should do so under the guidance of an experienced or qualified person.
                      http://www.military.ie/careers/pt_test.htm

                      Candidates who wish to prepare for the above test should do so under the guidance of a
                      qualified instructor.
                      http://www.military.ie/Cadetship2007.pdf

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        In the UK, the TA will pay for members to join a gym.

                        Nope

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rod and serpent View Post
                          Nope
                          http://www.army.mod.uk/servingsoldie...facilities.htm
                          Support the Search Function.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Encourage more units to take part in the An Cosantoir 10k every October
                            I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

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                            • #15
                              why not have 2 An Coasntoirs every year

                              a lot of lads miss out because of duties- Overseas- course and other shite

                              a second one would alleviate this and to facilitate the scrounging shower of malcontents

                              with no dress sense in the RDF the second one should be run on a saturday or sunday

                              there fore everyone would be happy

                              except the 27bn as they are never ever happy
                              Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                              Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                              The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                              The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                              The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                              Are full of passionate intensity.

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