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Daysack / webbing / Armour - Are we getting overloaded?

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  • Daysack / webbing / Armour - Are we getting overloaded?

    I have a gripe with the increasing trend to have to wear daysacks. All well and good for carrying reserve ammo and equipment etc but to be told to keep them on during a section in attack is a bit crazy. What happened to momentum, speed, manuverability? You're just lugging extra weight that your not going to get access to during the battle!!?

    Dont even want to start on how behind the reality we are with regards to our load carrying equipment
    "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

  • #2
    Any Cadet School exercise I've ever heard of/seen pictures of they wear Reduced CEMO on the assault.

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    • #3
      I agree. It's ridiculous. All that extra crap should be dumped with the Pln Sgt and the BCR's, leaving the sections to do their thing. Look at what we have to carry - Lid/CBA/CEFO, ammo, grenades, reserve ammo, SRAAW, MAG ammo, Breach kits and ladders if urban. No mention of food, water, or 3rd line yet!

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      • #4
        And what is the Sergeant going to do with two sections worth of daysacks?? How is he going to casevac while looking after all that.

        Daysacks should absolutely be kept on for attacks. You need the kit in them while advancing to contact, for the reorgs after a battle and so on. Webbing can't hold all the stuff you need.

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        • #5
          Hi there
          Section in attack fighting order should be limited to belt order only, with a sack/daysack/sandbag for the carriage of grenades/spare GPMG rounds.Mobility is the key to survival and winning the firefight.There are countless examples in warfare of men fighting with belt order or less.I thought the whole CEMO rig was designed to be quickly dumped for action. Perhaps it's time for a rethink on the whole concept of what a man carries on his belt/back for firefights.
          regards
          GttC

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          • #6
            All a rifleman should have for a section in attack, is water and slaughter. If you get hit up with your cemo on, ditch it on the spot and collect it later or get it back loaded. This idea of carrying the kitchen sink in the day sack is a new thing but itreally needs to be rethaught out.
            Only the dead have seen the end of war - Plato

            "Where there is no guidance the people fall, but in abundance of counselors there is victory" Proverbs 11-14
            http://munsterfireandrescue.com

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            • #7
              Well although I agree with you all about the day sack what about body armour? Its heavey and restricts movement. It may possibly save your life by protecting vital organs but that may not be any use if the enemy is more agile and blows your head off.

              Maybe (and I speculate here) the idea of insisting on the continual wearing of day sacks is to prepare for the bay when body armour must be worn??
              Last edited by luchi; 1 August 2007, 16:24.
              Without supplies no army is brave.

              —Frederick the Great,

              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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              • #8
                Originally posted by fiannoglach View Post
                I agree. It's ridiculous. All that extra crap should be dumped with the Pln Sgt and the BCR's, leaving the sections to do their thing. Look at what we have to carry - Lid/CBA/CEFO, ammo, grenades, reserve ammo, SRAAW, MAG ammo, Breach kits and ladders if urban. No mention of food, water, or 3rd line yet!
                That is what you use your daysack to carry.

                Reduced CEMO is the same as wearing CEFO plus Daysack, you just replace the pack made from the rocket pouches with something a bit more comfortable. All that extra ammo etc don't fit in your belt kit.

                Sleeping system, rations spare water, clothes etc gets put in your Bergin which should in no way be confused with a daysack.

                Those of you who have had to carry the full ordinance and equipment allocation for a platoon know how much space it takes.

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                • #9
                  Forgive me if I didn't make myself clearer. I meant it was dumped with the Pln Sgt at the Pln RV, Section does their attack and collects their daysacks when they move into reserve.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                    Those of you who have had to carry the full ordinance and equipment allocation for a platoon know how much space it takes.
                    True, but that doesn't mean that you have to carry it into the assault with you.

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                    • #11
                      Look at what we have to carry - Lid/CBA/CEFO, ammo, grenades, reserve ammo, SRAAW, MAG ammo, Breach kits and ladders if urban.
                      Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                      All that extra ammo etc don't fit in your belt kit.

                      Those of you who have had to carry the full ordinance and equipment allocation for a platoon know how much space it takes.
                      I'm talking section level attack (Not FIBUA)

                      Main ammo, grenades, SRAAW,Breach kits all fit in CEFO. Some people (And I was guilty of this till recently) need to get rid of the unneccaasary shite in the webbing. The only other things you need are a canteen of water and a cleaning kit.

                      But the thinking trend now is that you need to bring all this extra shite like NVE, Reserve ammo, MAG ammo, shovels etc in a daysack with you during the assault. BOLLOX
                      "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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                      • #12
                        What happens if they get cut off - lack of food, enough water, ammo etc?

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                        • #13
                          good points zulu....i agree people generally carry too much gear in both their CEFO and daysacks.

                          all the ammo, water and essentials you need (and i mean ESSENTIALS with maybe just a boil in the bag too) can easily fit in CEFO. most of the weight comes from the ammo itself.

                          i do think there is a tendency to carry daysacks that are too big. and soldiers being soldiers, if there is space they will fill it! usually with "just in case" stuff. the sort of stuff that doesn't actually get used much...or in reality should be in their backpack!

                          as regards to wearing helmets and CBA...well, get used to it. its mandatory on some PDF courses and obviously overseas so we should be training as we would fight. its comfy doing section in attacks in boonie hats but not realistic. training, both PT and tactics, should be gearing people towards the real scenarios. no use running in runners before tactics...people should be running with weight and boots to get used to section in attack like conditions.
                          Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

                          And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

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                          • #14
                            I have no problem wearing the Lid and Armour X-RayOne, its the unneccasary weight and reduced mobility that is being forced upon us.

                            Dev - They're not going to get cut off. We're talking section assault on a bunker/MG position. Soldiers are going to either die or kill. Food is the last thing they will want or have time to use.

                            Using cover, me and my other assault element keep on getting stuck by obstacles catching in these bloddy daysacks, filled with stuff we don't need and will never have access to in the heat of an assault. It really does not take sense to see that you should drop them, take the position, and then collect them again.
                            "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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                            • #15
                              I dont see the logic in everyone in the section wearing daysacks. Definitely not the assault groups. Speed and momentum are key here for most involved. But I've always thought a day sack for the 2 FSG and 2i/c would be handy allowing them to carry that little bit of extra ammo and kit that is particular to their roles. They mightn't appreciate it when they have to hoof it up for the re-org but maneuverability at this stage mightn't be as important.
                              "Many a time a man's mouth broke his nose"

                              "Don't waste money buying expensive binoculars. Simply stand next to the object you wish to view."

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