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  • Individual attitudes in the DF

    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    I disagree. During the summer i was privelaged to work alongside the PDF during our corps concentration, and i found, with no exception that if the RDF people showed their ability to do the job, they were accepted by the PDF as just another one of the team. The greater interaction between RDF and PDF, the better impression the PDF get of the RDF.

    Perhaps the Dublin units don't have the same interaction?
    On tuesday night we sent 4 vehicles to be filled. The orderly sgt was "off some-where" and the duty driver could not give us the pump keys because we were not PDF. It would have been ok if there was a PDF person with us but RDF pers cannot operate the pumps!!

    Also we are supposed to be doing a drops course but no truck was available. The 5 parked in the yard "might be needed".

    Now considering one of the drivers was one of the integrated lads I do not think interaction was the problem. As I have said one of ours has stood in as OS on a couple of weekends.

    Every time I try to believe that the army is changing and that the PDF now "respect" the RDF something like this happpens and I know its all the same repackaged!!
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

  • #2
    Originally posted by luchi View Post
    On tuesday night we sent 4 vehicles to be filled. The orderly sgt was "off some-where" and the duty driver could not give us the pump keys because we were not PDF. It would have been ok if there was a PDF person with us but RDF pers cannot operate the pumps!!
    Mate, -
    After working hours the OS is IC of the POL
    NOT the duty driver, I for one think he was 100% correct in not handing over the keys.

    I cannot see how you were operating expensive transport without any PDF People there to supervise you and make sure you dont do anything mad



    Also we are supposed to be doing a drops course but no truck was available. The 5 parked in the yard "might be needed".

    Do oyu know what was on the next day, do you know the full transport requirements,

    did your cadre staff actually look for them
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Comment


    • #3
      Stop stirring HH . Apart from the possible validity of the DROPS being ["might" ] needed the next day - the kit would have been dropped back in good order that night, alternatively do your training on the CBB square.

      The POL keys should have been handed over - there's no reason not to, If he had walked in with a black hat he would have gotten them.

      my sig on a req/duty order covers it so why should anyone give a stuff.
      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by trellheim View Post
        Stop stirring HH . Apart from the possible validity of the DROPS being ["might" ] needed the next day - the kit would have been dropped back in good order that night, alternatively do your training on the CBB square.

        The POL keys should have been handed over - there's no reason not to, If he had walked in with a black hat he would have gotten them.

        my sig on a req/duty order covers it so why should anyone give a stuff.
        AS if I would ever stir the poo
        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
        Are full of passionate intensity.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
          AS if I would ever stir the poo
          Impossible to stir it when you have so much of it coming out of you


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thats prime quality poo coming from me

            thank you very much
            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
            Are full of passionate intensity.

            Comment


            • #7
              On tuesday night we sent 4 vehicles to be filled. The orderly sgt was "off some-where" and the duty driver could not give us the pump keys because we were not PDF. It would have been ok if there was a PDF person with us but RDF pers cannot operate the pumps!!
              Standing orders ,its the same where I am..it might not be the most logical system in the world but its the one the army wish to operate.

              If non drivers were more aware of the Drivers standing orders on filling of vehicles after use it might be easier.The other side of the coin is that the BOS should be aware that there is a requirement for access to be available on training nights and the keyholding issue could be solved by some prior discussion earlier in the evening. Trust me it works...

              Also we are supposed to be doing a drops course but no truck was available. The 5 parked in the yard "might be needed".
              Again were you specifically aware of the operational requirements the next day?

              Operational requirements exceed the needs of training. I've come across a situation recently which I'm not at liberty to post but again, its a local standing order and has to be complied with with the interests of not upsetting the current OC of the PDF unit based within the Barracks.

              May seem like mindless little power trips but most of those in charge like to stamp their authourity on their command ..even if it does cause little upsets amongst those who may not appreciate why such actions were taken.

              In my time in the RDF the OCs of the PDF units have changed so many times I can no longer rememeber the names and every one has added a little quirk to the function of the Barracks, but as time passed things revert to the path of least resistance.

              I wouldn't worry about it to much..no point in being aggrieved because some one above your rank has decided that the DF would be a better place becuase of his attempt to make his mark on his often short lived command.
              hptmurphy
              Commander in Chief
              Last edited by hptmurphy; 27 September 2007, 21:11.
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

              Comment


              • #8
                Just to clarify a few points.

                I am well aware of who is supposed to be IC of the POL. I am also aware that they are supposed to be available and not "off some where, don't know when he'll be back"

                Hedgie this is the complicated operation of a fuel pump. A task that even red haired women are expected to be able to do!!

                The duty driver was a pte. He was pulling the "I'm in control because I'm PDF" sh1te

                The last time this happened our CO and their CO was the same person and he was sitting at his desk at our unit lines. When the Pte told the NCO to "F**k off I don't give the keys to you lot" the said NCO picked up the phone dialed the number. When the CO answered said "Pte X wants to talk to you Sir". That was nearly 3 years ago and no prob since?

                The rules have not changed. On tuesday night our NCO went looking for the BOS to sort the problem out. He simply told the guy to stop acting the Pri*K and hand over the keys and paperwork. And then went looking for the OS.

                As for the Drops. The intended class work was to be carried out in CBB. According to our Capt, who is the tech officer for 2LSB, there was no such requirements and he would be having words with those involved.

                But this is not the point.

                The point is that the US and THEM attitude still exists. It may not be as prevelent as before but it is still there. Some people say that the RDF can do the PDF job but the question still remains will the PDF let them?
                Without supplies no army is brave.

                —Frederick the Great,

                Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                Comment


                • #9
                  I wouldnt put this down to an institutional problem, ie, RDF Vs PDF, more like an individuals attitude problem.
                  Common in the DF as a whole.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Famous Phone Call

                    That incident still raises a good laugh everytime it is brought up in conversation.

                    And when said NCO was driving away from the pumps he looked in the mirror to have a good laugh at the Pte being cut down to size by the OS.
                    I'm not a number, I'm a free man.
                    Who is number 1?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                      I wouldnt put this down to an institutional problem, ie, RDF Vs PDF, more like an individuals attitude problem.
                      Common in the DF as a whole.
                      In general I like to think that but what struck me was that this guy seemed to genuinely believe what he was doing was right. Some of there guys do it because they have an attitude others because the see others with the attitude and think that the right way.

                      The problem is which attidude will prevail in the DF. Will we go back to the "you lot can do nothing with us, the professionals, to hold your hand!???

                      I was wondering what he would do if one of us was the OS (which happens at weekends). Would he tell everyone "sorry you can't fill the OS is RDF and they are not supposed to have the pump keys"
                      Without supplies no army is brave.

                      —Frederick the Great,

                      Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The point is that the US and THEM attitude still exists. It may not be as prevelent as before but it is still there. Some people say that the RDF can do the PDF job but the question still remains will the PDF let them?
                        Just because someone says this attitude Must Change Dosen't mean it will change..its down to individuals

                        Some times the worst offenders are former RDF guys....Oftenthese guys see RDF NCOs as being beneath themselves because they feel that they have achieved more in their time in the PDF than the NCO has in the RDF and this gives them the right to disregard our rank...again if you feel strongly enough about this , there is a system in place where you air your grieviences.I find if it ever comes to that level it usually dies a death at C/S level.

                        The other side of the coin is don't refuel the vehicles..walk away..and inform the cadre that the requirement to do so was removed from your remit...and you are washing your hands of the issue...when the cadre find them selves having to deal with these problems there is usually a quick turnabout in the situation.
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well our cadre Captain has told us not to waste time infuture. If we have a problem refueling he is to be informed at once and the BOS and Orderly Officer will be got to sort out the problem. So the problem is sorted untill the officer swap round again.

                          Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                          I cannot see how you were operating expensive transport without any PDF People there to supervise you and make sure you dont do anything mad
                          I will remember this next time I am on recovery!!
                          luchi
                          Cut backs
                          Last edited by luchi; 28 September 2007, 14:30.
                          Without supplies no army is brave.

                          —Frederick the Great,

                          Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hedgie this is the complicated operation of a fuel pump. A task that even red haired women are expected to be able to do!!

                            The duty driver was a pte. He was pulling the "I'm in control because I'm PDF" sh1te

                            You do realise that its not the local esso your going into.

                            when the OS takes over in the evening, he is given the POL acount, he is told you have X litres of fuel. he must be able to account for every litre in the morning or pay the consequences.
                            If he was to allow another person have access, then he has to bear the responsibility of that persons actions. (say the duty driver didnt mark it up properly- robbed it etc)

                            Likewise the duty driver giving out fuel is now accountable,

                            I know for a fact if I was the duty driver, I wouldnt not give out fuel to anyone

                            If the CO rang up and said give out the fuel, I am now absolved and it is now the CO that is Accountable, so no problems and here is some green shield stamps as well- but hey your long enough around to know that a CO would take on this.


                            The rules have not changed. On tuesday night our NCO went looking for the BOS to sort the problem out. He simply told the guy to stop acting the Pri*K and hand over the keys and paperwork. And then went looking for the OS
                            You know that didnt happen- I am on the BOS Panel and I wouldnt interfere with POL and I doubt any other BOS would unless he is in Tpt,


                            The duty driver was a pte. He was pulling the "I'm in control because I'm PDF" sh1te
                            the Duty Driver was in control because he probably was the person in authority at that moment and not because of any PDF SHite or RDF Shite. but simply its his full time job.

                            should he just abdicate all responsibility and say- dont ask me I am only a private

                            and yes Massa, no massa



                            The last time this happened our CO and their CO was the same person and he was sitting at his desk at our unit lines. When the Pte told the NCO to "F**k off I don't give the keys to you lot" the said NCO picked up the phone dialed the number. When the CO answered said "Pte X wants to talk to you Sir". That was nearly 3 years ago and no prob since?

                            Yes I can see Comdt X- getting a phone call from an RDF NCO in realition to this,

                            he clearly thought, WOW I can detail one of my Privates twho is in charge of my POL account o give over the POL keys to a RDF NCO, who is not accountable- this RDF lad could if he wants feck up the account, but hey he is an RDF NCO, and who cares about my career

                            Or I could go back to reading the paper and pretend that he was passing under a tunnel and he lost Phone comms

                            Do you know this happened- or is this another Army myth- if it happened PM me some of the dates



                            That incident still raises a good laugh everytime it is brought up in conversation.

                            And when said NCO was driving away from the pumps he looked in the mirror to have a good laugh at the Pte being cut down to size by the OS.
                            __________________

                            An NCO had a good laugh as a Private who was simply doing his job is chastised

                            wow

                            Man Management skill are in abundance here
                            Last edited by hedgehog; 29 September 2007, 10:03.
                            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                            Are full of passionate intensity.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The solution to the issue is to look up the barrack standing orders in relation to issuing fuel. I'd be prepared to bet that every barracks is the same and the BOS is responsible for doing so after duty hours.
                              sigpic
                              Say NO to violence against Women

                              Originally posted by hedgehog
                              My favourite moment was when the
                              Originally posted by hedgehog
                              red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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