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Should the RDF be solely Infantry?

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  • Should the RDF be solely Infantry?

    This one is an off-shoot of the Reserve is dead thread.

    I am firmly of the opinion that the RDF should be solely infantry based.

    One of the main functions of the DF is to provide an infantry battalion for overseas service. The civil servant penny-pinching scum-bstards will eventually get their way and reduce the DF to a two brigade structure hence a six infantry battalion (plus two each corps units) Army. These two factors will mean that RDF pers will have to take up the slack. Lets not get into the job security issue here, it has been discussed elsewhere.

    Training. Once an RDF person gets beyond the basics and into corps-specific training we run into problems. For example an RDF Cav unit took several years to get personnel through a gunnery course and gained one qualified person out of it. I'm sure that similar problems have been encountered across the board.

    My plan would be to have 9 (or 6 if the civil servant penny-pinching scum-bstards get their way) RDF infantry battalions mirror their PDF counterparts who are responsible for administering/training their RDF personnel. Discharged PDF heads will have to report for their reserve training with their old unit, particularly ex-Corps unit personnel.
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    Originally posted by hedgehog
    My favourite moment was when the
    Originally posted by hedgehog
    red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

  • #2
    It is fact that the PDF need support from RDF corps unit (especially from LSB, including for duties overseas). Problems completing courses etc are not limited to Corps unit - it also happens in Infantry units.

    If your suggestion was implemented, what happens after a new 3* is upgraded?? Only members of the relevant pln in the Support Coy will do some weapons eg HMG. Only the members of the Wpns Pln in the Inf Coy will do Light Inf Supp Wpns.

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    • #3
      According to CoS there is a deficit in the corps trained personnel. Especially Engineers, Medics and logistics. Ifr the RDF went infantry all the way, in the long term, would that not increase the deficit?
      Without supplies no army is brave.

      —Frederick the Great,

      Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        It is fact that the PDF need support from RDF corps unit (especially from LSB, including for duties overseas).
        Not so. Virtually all overseas appointments can be filled from infantry units. As discussed elsewhere Cav took over the Recce Role and Arty got 81 mm mortars to justify sending them on overseas missions. LSB provides fitters, engineers, armourers and medics. The first two categories are civilian qualifications which every unit PDF and RDF possesses lots of. The RDF doesn't have an ordnance corps and simply increasing the size of PDF medical units and utilising the ex-PDF reservists would sort out the supply of them.

        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        Problems completing courses etc are not limited to Corps unit - it also happens in Infantry units.
        Infantry courses are shorter and less technical.

        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        If your suggestion was implemented, what happens after a new 3* is upgraded?? Only members of the relevant pln in the Support Coy will do some weapons eg HMG. Only the members of the Wpns Pln in the Inf Coy will do Light Inf Supp Wpns.
        In a stunning display of initiative, lateral thinking, flexibility and just plain old brainpower PDF infantry units train virtually everybody on support weapons. Apart from that the function of the RDF is not to provide it's members with an unending series of new experiences. Since a 3* reservist will only serve until he is 30 and will be going overseas at least once in that time getting him up to speed and keeping him trained in whatever his job will be will be enough.
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        Originally posted by hedgehog
        My favourite moment was when the
        Originally posted by hedgehog
        red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
          LSB provides fitters, engineers, armourers and medics. The first two categories are civilian qualifications which every unit PDF and RDF possesses lots of.
          Every unit, PDF and RDF has lots of fitters and engineers?

          Where are they hiding?

          Here is another approach.

          Inf do all recruiting and everyone serves in inf for about 8 years. Make available eng, medical and other courses so that those with the aptitude in these areas can be up skilled.

          Then as people "mature" move them from the physical inf role to the support rolles.

          Lets face it, there are plenty of desk jobs in the army and reserve that are been done by very able and capable young persons. Why should the defence forces put people out to pasture based on some arbitry fittness regime?
          Without supplies no army is brave.

          —Frederick the Great,

          Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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          • #6
            Many PDF Corps unit (maybe Combat Service Support is the phrase I should use) are overstretched - courses & training, overseas preparation, admin etc that is before overseas, good example is MOs!

            Like your idea about everyone enlisting in infantry luchi.

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            • #7
              Its not really my idea

              we are mirroring the PDF are we not?

              I haven't seen anyone in the PDF doing recruitment other than the Inf.
              Without supplies no army is brave.

              —Frederick the Great,

              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DeV View Post
                Many PDF Corps unit (maybe Combat Service Support is the phrase I should use) are overstretched - courses & training, overseas preparation, admin etc that is before overseas,
                Combat Service Support units have a very small overseas commitment. They are stretched because they are carrying lots of dead wood and have way too many people in administration who cannot be touched. But I think you miss my point.

                Suppose an infantry battalion is going overseas and has a shortfall of three fitters, a plumber, 2 carpenters. Your average RDF infantry unit could supply that shortfall at the drop of a hat. So what need is there to have an RDF Engineer corps? How many RDF cav units can supply qualified gunners for a Panhard 90? The heaviest piece of artillery we will deploy overseas is an 81 mortar. Again, an infantry weapon. And so on.

                Originally posted by DeV View Post
                good example is MOs!
                It's an extremely bad example. How many Doctors join the RDF? How many are prepared to take time out to serve overseas? The reason MOs are stretched at the is because there are I think 17 of them when there should be 50 odd. I'm open to correction on thsoe figures by the way. But I can tell you from experience that the DF Medical system is a disaster. I've had two Medicals in ten years both for promotion and one of them only when I suggested to my company commander that delaying my promotion because the DF could not provide me with a medical was grounds for a redress.
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                Originally posted by hedgehog
                My favourite moment was when the
                Originally posted by hedgehog
                red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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                • #9
                  . But I can tell you from experience that the DF Medical system is a disaster
                  Most reservist involved in rrecruiting and recruit training are accutely aware of this. Should the old sytem of medicals and even audiograms carried out to DF specifics by a local doctor not be enough for the DF.

                  It was this way in the past and worked quite fine albeit it a tad expensive..but as opposed to employing in excess of thirty extra doctors surely it would be cost effective to outsource some of the services required and so speed up the processing system and thus re installing more realistic processing times..

                  A little off thread I know but just some thing that I picked up on.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • #10
                    I should point out that in recent years, the National Guard went through a similar transformation.

                    People who lived echelons above reality figured that all the reservists were interested in was wearing the uniform, serving in their own humble capacity, and showing up at the local armoury for drill, and they didn't really care what sort of unit was at their local armoury, just that it was their local armoury.

                    As a result, there was massive reclassification. Northern California, for example, has seen infantrymen turned into truckers, and a tank unit turned into an 'Asphalt paving platoon'. (Well, they have tracks...). Cavalry scouts have turned into NBC types. There's virtually no combat unit left in the top half of the State. They basically forgot that if someone really wanted to spend their weekends driving a fuel truck, they'd have bloody gone and joined a truck unit to start with, not an artillery battalion. If they can't do what they want to do, they're not going to do anything at all, and will get out.

                    The same would happen if the RDF went all infantry. You'll see a whole lot of Signals, Transport, Medic, ADA, Cavalry, whatnot soldiers decide that they're not particularly interested in playing Grunt, and will get out entirely as opposed to being reclassified.

                    NTM
                    Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

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                    • #11
                      I am of the opinion that there should only be a two brigade reserve consisting of supporting corps as there are no need for a 3 brigade Infantry reserve, they play no credible role and are a waste of funds for the reserve and regular defence forces. The money could be better utilized training and equipping a more professional reserve.
                      The Regular army should scrap altogether the Artillery corps and the Engineering corps and pass these functions over to the reserve forces, after all a reserve engineer could probably do his/ her job much better than a regular soldier because they use their respective trade everyday in their civilian jobs. The Artillery corps never serve as a functional unit overseas so why bother having this as a full time establishment within the Army...? The reserve could fulfill this role as professionally as the regular army. The savings from wages and pensions could be re-invested back into equipment and training making the two corps a more professional and capable enterprise for the defence forces both reservse and regular.
                      It would better suit the needs of the defence forces if the reserve was cut to a two brigade structure in which they had four Infantry batts, a proper trained and equipped Logistics batt as in no way is the medical element of the defence forces up to international standards a proper trained and equipped engineering corps, again I point to fact above that our regular engineers are not up to international standards and are not utilized enough to maintain a full time corps.
                      There's my two cents

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
                        Suppose an infantry battalion is going overseas and has a shortfall of three fitters, a plumber, 2 carpenters. Your average RDF infantry unit could supply that shortfall at the drop of a hat..
                        No they can not!!!! And I am sure you know they can't and why!

                        So what need is there to have an RDF Engineer corps?
                        Because there are other jobs that the COE are supposed to do, as well you know.

                        Originally posted by California Tanker View Post
                        If they can't do what they want to do, they're not going to do anything at all, and will get out.

                        The same would happen if the RDF went all infantry. You'll see a whole lot of Signals, Transport, Medic, ADA, Cavalry, whatnot soldiers decide that they're not particularly interested in playing Grunt, and will get out entirely as opposed to being reclassified.

                        NTM
                        Exactly.
                        Although some people do join units that are related to the type of work they do many who want to do their job 7 days a week opt to do overtime and get paid a hell of alot more with out the BS!

                        I think re-org or re-classifying people like CT said happend shows a total lack of understanding of the reasons why people join the reserve. There are lots of different reason!!!
                        Without supplies no army is brave.

                        —Frederick the Great,

                        Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I joined because I LIKE LOUD NOISES AND ORDERED DESTRUCTION!!!! also Ive always wanted to be a soldier but left it too late to do anything about it, unless I join our UK brethren or LA LEGION!

                          I would be seriously pi$$ed off if someone tried to take that away and hand me a truck to drive.
                          "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                          "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Thing View Post
                            I am of the opinion that there should only be a two brigade reserve consisting of supporting corps as there are no need for a 3 brigade Infantry reserve, .................................................. ...

                            It would better suit the needs of the defence forces if the reserve was cut to a two brigade structure in which they had four Infantry batts, a proper trained and equipped Logistics batt .........
                            You've completely contradicted yourself in the space of a paragraph.

                            Originally posted by The Thing View Post
                            as in no way is the medical element of the defence forces up to international standards a proper trained and equipped engineering corps,
                            Medics and Engineers are completely different animals.
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                            Say NO to violence against Women

                            Originally posted by hedgehog
                            My favourite moment was when the
                            Originally posted by hedgehog
                            red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by California Tanker View Post
                              The same would happen if the RDF went all infantry. You'll see a whole lot of Signals, Transport, Medic, ADA, Cavalry, whatnot soldiers decide that they're not particularly interested in playing Grunt, and will get out entirely as opposed to being reclassified.

                              NTM
                              I take your point but I would say that the Reserve should be structured to accomodate the needs of the DF not wish fulfilment for the terminally bored.
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                              Say NO to violence against Women

                              Originally posted by hedgehog
                              My favourite moment was when the
                              Originally posted by hedgehog
                              red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                              Comment

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