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  • Revisit the SMG?

    Just a thought: would the Naval Service be better equipped with a small, light sub-machine gun, rather than an assault rifle such as the Steyr? Something like the H&K MP7...




  • #2
    Originally posted by carrington View Post
    Just a thought: would the Naval Service be better equipped with a small, light sub-machine gun, rather than an assault rifle such as the Steyr? Something like the H&K MP7...
    They probably would, but it all comes back to cost.
    Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

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    • #3
      not that expensive

      Originally posted by paul View Post
      They probably would, but it all comes back to cost.
      How much does an MP7 cost? About €1,000 each? How many would the NS need? 8 ships, each with 20 in the armoury, plus some for training and guard duty in Haulbowline, 200 altogether? Say €250,000 total, incl. some ammunition - that's not a lot, is it? especially as the weapons should last for 10 or 20 years.

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      • #4
        Hmmm...who says size dosen't matter.?
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • #5
          you should know as well as i do that the DF are cheap bastards and if they have something that can do the job already,they won't get something to replace it.
          Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

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          • #6
            Yeah but if the Navy got that then the army would want them too. Would this bring us back to the FN/Gustaf days?
            Without supplies no army is brave.

            —Frederick the Great,

            Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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            • #7
              Why be so different?

              9mm SMG

              Meh.

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              • #8
                The Army were going to get the P90 to replace the Gustaf but decided against it due the obviouse issues with adding another caliber round to the supply chain and because the Steyr has a decent full auto capability. The aug has shorther barrel lengths available and can be converted to 9mm so why go out and spend all the money on MP7's? Also it's not just the cost of the guns its the rounds, parts and training not to mention time consumed in doing it all.

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                • #9
                  Just a couple of clarifications...

                  The MP7 can fire semi-auto or full-auto, same as the Steyr. The big advantage is that the weapon is much smaller and lighter, and therefore more convenient - I would have thought - for use by a naval boarding party.



                  The problem with 9mm is that it can be stopped by body armour. The MP7's round will penetrate body armour at up to 200m.

                  For example, the UK MOD police are now armed exclusively with the MP7, replacing the Browning 9mm pistol, the MP5 SMG, and the SA80.

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                  • #10
                    Lots of sailors use 9mm SMGs with specialised frangible rounds. Some even use 5.56mm but I think it's more of a case of the Naval Service would let it be known if they felt they needed the kit.

                    SMGs are not hugely expensive in the grand scheme of things so I suspect if the need was felt it would be answered fairly promptly.
                    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                    • #11
                      Why get an smg if you are only going to fire single shot? Pistols are more appropriate, and safer to manage during boardings.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                        Why get an smg if you are only going to fire single shot? Pistols are more appropriate, and safer to manage during boardings.
                        But why does the NS have Steyrs at all then?

                        It seems to be the case that 9mm is obsolescent, because it can't penetrate body armour.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by carrington View Post
                          But why does the NS have Steyrs at all then?
                          It's my understanding that the NS no longer uses Steyrs on boarding parties. and I'm sure there's other uses for rifles in the NS.
                          "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Muzzle View Post
                            The Army were going to get the P90 to replace the Gustaf but decided against it due the obviouse issues with adding another caliber round to the supply chain and because the Steyr has a decent full auto capability. The aug has shorther barrel lengths available and can be converted to 9mm so why go out and spend all the money on MP7's? Also it's not just the cost of the guns its the rounds, parts and training not to mention time consumed in doing it all.
                            Very good points, a combination of the AUG and a decent side arm is sufficently flexible for the requirements at present...
                            "There is nothing braver then the heart of a volunteer" Lt. Col. Dolittle, USAC, 1941.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by carrington View Post
                              But why does the NS have Steyrs at all then?

                              It seems to be the case that 9mm is obsolescent, because it can't penetrate body armour.
                              If the NS are to have a role overseas (with the EPV), Steyrs will be needed for ship security, remember the pictures of the Niamh alongside in Monrovia.
                              Im Ron Burgendy??

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