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  • Originally posted by Docman View Post
    All of my unit attended full training last year. One guy missed one parade and another guy missed a day or 2 of FTT. Both informed the unit that they would be doing so well in advance (2 months). One guy was nearly charged for not showing up at training and not having permission to be absent. Instead he was RTUed. Then again, that was Integration.
    All I can say to that is fair play. I can honestly say that there is no one on our courses that have been there every parade. Any NCOs give plenty of notice but ptes???????

    The right "frame of mind", as you call it is there in the Integrated Reserve. And they will prob be the only ones going overseas for a while.
    In my reply to Zulu I thought I did acknowledge there was those amoung the RDF that did have this. I only question if there is enough!

    And as for assuming that there is no risk in the RDF, you must be in a different Reserve to me.
    Every thing we do is in a controlled environment. Every ex is planned to as much detail as possible. There is a big difference between that and overseas wher the necessity to take risks may arise. In fact there is a whole section in the unit safety statement, which is standard in all of them, dedicated to the commitment of the unit to minimise risk to personnel when training.
    When getting Life assurance, the fact that I was in the RDF had a major effect upon my application. Between Heavy weapons cses, small arms, grenades, etc. etc they took a while to come back with a final contract. Does your Assurance Company know you are in the Reserve and would they still be willing to cover you?
    My assurance does not cover me when with the RDF. My insurance does, however only for accidents. If some looper decides to mow us down on the range then tough luck. As I said above neither covers is I decide to go to a war zone, am a victim of trerrorism in a "hot area", am involved in extreme sports etc.

    If I do go overseas, I accept all the risk that come with it. I'm not blind to the fact that it is dangerous and that I may not come back, But then again, being in the RDF for me is already a risk. Between a grenade shoot last year, LFTT, range practices, PDF Corporals () etc, it was not a major risk but it was still a risk. I accepted that. And I expect that it will be dangerous overseas.... but I accept that also.
    so you are prepared to go as a member of the DF. Which is the way it should be. But you said you are studying to be a professional but did not say in what area. Are you prepared to risk not being able to follow that choosen career?
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

    Comment


    • Luchi,

      there is employment protection for Reservists over here although there have been many cases where it hasn't worked. But for the most part I think it does. That would be a requirement before reservist could go overseas and the government should enact a law to offer that protection (as it should).

      There is a difference in mindset but I don't think it affects the performance of the reservist - if anything it enhances it as he's more likely to "enjoy" a deployment as opposed to the ho-hum of his civilian job. The other thing about reservists is that they bring a secondary skill to the unit - this has proved useful in Iraq/Afghanistan and actually enhances a units capabilities - whether its a trade or a white collar skill (negotiating/finance etc.) those skills have added an extra layer to those missions that require post conflict infrastructure rebuilding (which conflict doesn't)

      You're right - they won't be treated as equals but that will be down to more fear or anger on behalf of the PDF that to do with the capabilities of the reservist in question. IMHO many of the PDF will be waiting with baited breath for a reservist to fcuk up so they can say "see I told you so."
      There may be only one time in your life when your country will call upon you and you will be the only one who can do the nasty job that has to be done -- do it or forever after there will be the taste of ashes in your mouth.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by luchi View Post
        so you are prepared to go as a member of the DF. Which is the way it should be. But you said you are studying to be a professional but did not say in what area. Are you prepared to risk not being able to follow that choosen career?
        I've PMed you about this - I would prefer to keep it quiet.
        Docman
        Closed Account
        Last edited by Docman; 10 April 2008, 16:56.

        Comment


        • Dail Question

          .......

          Chun an Aire Cosanta: To the Minister for Defence.

          *151. To ask the Minister for Defence the progress that has been made in facilitating members of the Reserve Defence Forces to serve overseas; the timescale for such development; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — David Stanton. [13646/08]
          "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ARNGScout View Post
            Luchi,

            You're right - they won't be treated as equals but that will be down to more fear or anger on behalf of the PDF that to do with the capabilities of the reservist in question. IMHO many of the PDF will be waiting with baited breath for a reservist to fcuk up so they can say "see I told you so."
            Do you really think you can tar all the P.D.F. with the same brush?

            Of course there are arseh*les in all Services (Reserves included) but I don't think your opinion will be shared by all members of the P.D.F

            What has any P.D.F. personnel to fear from a Reservist who will (if it ever happens) be there to help his comrades out?

            Seems to be a little paranoia on your part seeing as there are no Reservists deployed anywhere as yet to "fcuk up" anything.

            Connaught Stranger.

            Comment


            • In fairness CS i think the General consensus wouldnt be too great if PDF and RDF lads were oversea's together, I think there would be the mentality of keeping a close eye over every reservist, obviously we've never benn tested before in this field, but if it is to become available and given a good job was done by reservists it would definitely bring the RDF up in the world in the eyes of the PDF.

              Comment


              • CS,

                Nor did I tar them, I said "many", not all. My comments are definitely coloured by the time I spent in the FCA and the attitudes of the PDF back then. I can see from some of the threads on this board that some of those attitudes still remain. You see it here too but it has subsided alot now that the active component have seen the Reserves perform well in theatre and the fact that without the reserves their tours would be a lot longer than 15 months.

                It would be interesting to poll the PDF to see how they'd feel about having reservists serve on a deployment.
                There may be only one time in your life when your country will call upon you and you will be the only one who can do the nasty job that has to be done -- do it or forever after there will be the taste of ashes in your mouth.

                Comment


                • I assume if Reservists were ever to go overseas that their would be arond 3 months continuous training for them just like for PDF.

                  The PDF would then have enough time to see strengths, weaknesses and flaws in the reservists and then Remedy the situation.

                  If and I think it should be, it is the Integrated lads first then that means that they will have been around the PDF lads for at least 1 year (part-time) and then 3 months continuous/

                  I think that then the PDF would have enough faith in the RDF members who they have trained alongside to go over and not have an us and them attitude!
                  I probably am wrong, sorry about that!!!

                  Please PM me to correct me.

                  But, not if I state an opinion, only if I state something as truth!!!

                  I have bad opinions but I stick by them!!!

                  Comment


                  • Ye that would be the protocol and obviously the RDF personnel would be integrated with the PDF unit during the training, they'd know each other inside out by the end of it, in terms of RDF going oversea's we are working in the right direction obviously there is a seriosu amount of ground to be made up, but i personally think we make steps on that every year, the vast majority of RDF personnel want to better themselves across the board in terms of training, skills etc. Hopefully it should be possible to see RDF doing CIT's, oversea's duty etc. within five years!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dazzler View Post
                      I assume if Reservists were ever to go overseas that their would be arond 3 months continuous training for them just like for PDF.

                      The PDF would then have enough time to see strengths, weaknesses and flaws in the reservists and then Remedy the situation.

                      If and I think it should be, it is the Integrated lads first then that means that they will have been around the PDF lads for at least 1 year (part-time) and then 3 months continuous/

                      I think that then the PDF would have enough faith in the RDF members who they have trained alongside to go over and not have an us and them attitude!
                      good to see a bit of common sense creeping in .

                      i think the issue here is that pdf have all been thru the constant pressure cooker of recruit training, ncos course, standard course, cadet training where applicable and have come out of the other side a proven entity. This is not the case with rdf personnel, and the doubt will remain as to how they will perform under sustained pressure overseas unless they have been adequtely tested.This is not a slur on the rdf I have serevd both in the fca and the pdf and have only the utmost respect for people who are prepared to put some time in for the flag.I am out 10 years but i assume attitudes haven't changed too much and if that is the case then the reality is that unless the rdf soldier has been thru an equivelent 'proving enviornment' they will be seen with distrust by their pdf counterparts in relation to their reaction when the shit hits the fan. Any serving pdf to give an honest assesment of that?

                      Comment


                      • There are TA lads at the pointy end in Iraq and Afghanistan who haven't been under the "constant pressure cooker" either, but they seem to be doing pretty well.

                        A RDF soldier can never be completely as competent as a PDF soldier, but they COULD come pretty close, IF TRAINED CORRECTLY. But that rarely happens.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Barry View Post
                          But that rarely happens.
                          i have no agenda here barry but the above quote is the nub of the issue.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Headzilla View Post
                            In fairness CS i think the General consensus wouldnt be too great if PDF and RDF lads were oversea's together, I think there would be the mentality of keeping a close eye over every reservist, obviously we've never benn tested before in this field, but if it is to become available and given a good job was done by reservists it would definitely bring the RDF up in the world in the eyes of the PDF.

                            The same mentality was around about letting women integrate into the P.D.F., and later the Reserve Defence Forces, well that came to pass and the ladies passed with flying colours, apart from the odd case, with time all things come to pass, but as I have said before it just depends on how much money the Minister of Defence is going to be allowed to invest in the Reserve Defence Force Training, (hopefully not at the expense of the PDF) by the Minister of Finance, making comparisons with other countries that have had their systems in place for decades is not the way to go.

                            I am not disputing the use of Reservists, my comments are, that they follow a very different model as used by many European countries that have National Conscription, or have just finished using the National Conscription Model, many countries whose full-time military have been committed in combat on a regular basis, either in connection with their Colonial past or current NATO and UN Commitments.

                            Ireland has not yet embraced this situation, its military being placed at the bottom of the ladder for many years post WW2 because of the social and employment situation of the country. That in itself is not the fault of the Military, who are servants to the Public.

                            It is going to take investment and time to correct, especially if Ireland is heading into an economical Black period! The D.O.D. and the Military will be shoved on the back burner, has as happened before in the past (its not so long ago the question was being bandied about "Does the Republic of Ireland need a Military Force" anymore).

                            Connaught Stranger

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
                              The same mentality was around about letting women integrate into the P.D.F., and later the Reserve Defence Forces, well that came to pass and the ladies passed with flying colours, apart from the odd case, with time all things come to pass,
                              THats a matter of opinion!
                              Without supplies no army is brave.

                              —Frederick the Great,

                              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                              Comment


                              • I assume if Reservists were ever to go overseas that their would be arond 3 months continuous training for them just like for PDF.
                                Where are you getting the three months continuos training from?Yes we start the forming up process about three months prior to deployment but most of that is paperwork,medicals etc with your own unit.The pre mission training is usually 4-5 weeks long.Thats all.

                                A RDF soldier can never be completely as competent as a PDF soldier, but they COULD come pretty close, IF TRAINED CORRECTLY. But that rarely happens.
                                precisely what we have integration for.I can only speak from my perspective but the improvement in the lads i helped train last year was huge from the time we finished even if it was only in teaching em how to wear the uniform right for example.

                                ]The same mentality was around about letting women integrate into the P.D.F., and later the Reserve Defence Forces, well that came to pass and the ladies passed with flying colours, apart from the odd case
                                .
                                How long ago did you say you left? Definetly not the case today.


                                Originally posted by luchi View Post
                                THats a matter of opinion!
                                Indeed
                                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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