Disability in the RDF?

[ZULU]

1: If he's entitled to the Disability allowance and is a member of the RDF, he is not only putting his own life at risk, but that of every other member of the unit that is near him when handling weapons/live ammunition. If he lied during the medical then he is punishable by military law. HE signed up to it, now he's got to live by it.

2: If he's not entitled to the Disablity allowance and is in receipt of it not to mention being emplyed, he is stealing money from the state, i.e. YOU and ME and every other Tax payer. I for one am not happy with someone stealing from my pocket for his personal gain.

So for 1. Discahrge from RDF due to not meeting qualifiying criteria, if in breach of military law to this extent, dishonourable discharge.

and for 2. I have no time for thiefs

[FMolloy]

Possible so but the report everything and hang him out to dry is not usually applied to everyone and everything.

If someone is legally disabled they should not be physically able to serve in the RDF. So either the guy is lying to the Social Welfare about the seriousness of his condition and he's committing fraud or he's hiding the seriousness of his condition from the DF and could be potentially putting himself & others at risk.

Do you prosecute every j-walker? Do you report someone who doesn't wait for the green man?

Now I suppose you are going to say "thats different"

It's very much different, one is criminal law where there a garda and a judge has discretion & one is military law, you'd have to ask an MP where they have the same leeway. Discretion is exercised where it is decided it would not be in the best interests of justice to prosecute someone. Discretion certainly does not mean you ignore something, especially something as serious as potential fraud.

When you volunteer to join the DF you agree to abide by the rules, lying from the outset & hiding stuff is no small thing like jay-walking.

in which case I must ask above did you actualy mean to say "some rules apply to everyone all the time and some don't"????

I meant what I said, if I didn't I wouldn't have said it. The rules apply to everyone all the time. Thinking otherwise leads to lying and fraud like we have in this case.

[trellheim]

The DF is quite strict about this in fact for those of you in the recruiting role

R5 Main Para 7h refers.

[WES]

To tell or not to tell?

If something were to happen involving a person who should not have been enlisted and I mean something serious. Does anyone believe that the subsequent board of inquiry is going to be swayed by such terms as “I didn’t want to rat” or I "didn’t want to inform". When something happens, the first thing that the army does is reach for the rule book. The army authorities will have the undivided attention of the chief state solicitor’s office. They will expend hundreds of thousands of euro of tax payers money employing engineers, assessors, psychiatrists or any other professional that will assist them in apportioning blame to someone and believe me they do not care who gets caught in the stampede. The army has no emotional attachment to anyone. Best to bear that in mind.

[Jimmy C]

Someone was watching "Rules of Engagement" on saturday.

[WES]

I've never seen "Rules of Engagement".

I'm talking from experience.

[luchi]

If someone is legally disabled they should not be physically able to serve in the RDF. So either the guy is lying to the Social Welfare about the seriousness of his condition and he's committing fraud or he's hiding the seriousness of his condition from the DF and could be potentially putting himself & others at risk.

Not quite so black and white.
You can be on disability for many reaons. I have known a number of people "go sick" in order to attend annual training. After 3 days they are claiming disability benifit (papers are sent automatically by their employer) but they are no risk to their unit. I do agree its fraud though but so is not declairing your RDF pay for tax purposes and we all know plenty who don't.

It's very much different, one is criminal law where there a garda and a judge has discretion & one is military law, you'd have to ask an MP where they have the same leeway. Discretion is exercised where it is decided it would not be in the best interests of justice to prosecute someone. Discretion certainly does not mean you ignore something, especially something as serious as potential fraud.

Discression is just another way to say you decide when and how to apply rules and whom to apply them. And so be it, its the way its done.

When you volunteer to join the DF you agree to abide by the rules, lying from the outset & hiding stuff is no small thing like jay-walking.

Again although in principal I have to agree with you would you have every member that lied about their age prosecuted for fraud?

I meant what I said, if I didn't I wouldn't have said it. The rules apply to everyone all the time. Thinking otherwise leads to lying and fraud like we have in this case.

Sorry but I am confused if that is true then how do you apply discression?

7h says disability pension. The benifit paid when out sick is termed disability benifit and there is also a disability allowance which
from DSFA web site

2. Who can qualify?
To qualify for Disability Allowance you must:

satisfy the Habitual Residence Condition*,
have an injury, disease or illness, or have a physical or learning disability that has continued or is expected to continue for at least one year and causes you to be 'substantially restricted' in doing work that would otherwise be suitable for a person of your age, experience and qualifications,
be aged between 16 and 65, and
satisfy a means test.

so if someone fulfils the above and passes the army medical where is the fraud?
The "Habitual Residence Condition" just means you live in Ireland.

[FMolloy]

Not quite so black and white.
You can be on disability for many reaons. I have known a number of people "go sick" in order to attend annual training. After 3 days they are claining disability benifit but are no risk to their unit. I do agree its fraud though but so is not declairing your RDF pay for tax purposes and we all know plenty who don't.

So it's fraud, that's black & white enough for me.

Discression is just another way to say you decide when and how to apply rules and whom to apply them. And so be it, its the way its done.

No, discretion is deciding what to do with someone when they break the rules, not deciding that someone can break them.

Again although in principal I have to agree with you would you have every member that lied about their age prosecuted for fraud?

What makes you think they can be prosecuted for fraud in such a case? You're confusing criminal law with military law again. I do think that someone who's lied on joining should be dealt with, and those who knowingly & willingly assist people in doing so should be disciplned.

Sorry but I am confused if that is true then how do you apply discression?

If you judge that the public interest is not served by prosecuting someone, but rather by dealing with it through another means.

so if someone fulfils the above and passes the army medical where is the fraud?

You know very well that the medical is only a cursory inspection and relies on the applicant to be truthful, if they lie about a condition or neglect to tell anyone about it then it's dishonesty.

[luchi]

So it's fraud, that's black & white enough for me.

in the days you were in the RDF did you declare all your earnings? Have you reported yourself now? Have you informed the revenue comissioners of your fraud? Or do you apply discression and decide it would not serve justice?

What makes you think they can be prosecuted for fraud in such a case?

Well I was including a court martial in the term prosecute.

You know very well that the medical is only a cursory inspection and relies on the applicant to be truthful, if they lie about a condition or neglect to tell anyone about it then it's dishonesty.

Not the point. Let say some in the auto trade gets very bad dermatitis. This could knock them out of "normal" work for a long period and hence they would be on disibility. They wouldn't fail the medical even if they told the Doc.

So oneI have to ask the original poster. What is the person alledgedly getting the allowance for?

[DeV]

If Pte blogs is wearing glasses and goes into the river and breaks them he too is no good to the section but corrected eyesight is accepted and so considering the level of hearing protection that is now worn I wondered why corrected hearing devices would not be considered?

You have to have a minimum standard of eyesight to get into the DF (PDF & RDF), same goes for hearing.

[Goldie fish]

I also know of an individual who was in reciept of Disability while also being paid as a member of the RDF on full time training.
Revenue caught up with him and looked for the disability back for the weeks in question. He no longer attends annual training, to my knowlege, except in an administrative function.

[c-90]

What a load of bollocks.

really constructive

my brother in law is colour blind he bought my sis a necklace that was bright red and said that it matched her eyes which were blue then he couldnt tell the difference between my grey hoodie and his blue one. if there are different types of colour blindness i didnt know, nuff said.

[ollie]

If they're in receipt of a disability allowance and getting paid from the RDF, its the same as claiming social welfare while being employed.

My personal approach would be to bring it to the attention of every interested govenment body. DoD, Revenue, Social etc. If the person wants to be live by the sword, he can die by one.

this is what i was thinking , maybe squeel to the social welfare crowd

[The real Jack]

really constructive

It was a lot more constructive than saying you cant soldier because you wouldn't be able to distinguish between the guys dressed in red and the others.

my brother in law is colour blind he bought my sis a necklace that was bright red and said that it matched her eyes which were blue then he couldnt tell the difference between my grey hoodie and his blue one. if there are different types of colour blindness i didnt know, nuff said.

My brother in laws sister's cousin cant tell the difference between bright red and blue, luckily soldiers tend to not wear those colours nowadays.

[Goldie fish]

Most armies tend to wear green colours these days anyway....