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  • Are RDF civilians?

    What does the NON APPLICABLE (CIVILIAN/FOREIGN FORCES) option mean?????
    Last edited by ZULU; 9 February 2008, 21:05.
    Woo Hoo, finally moderated!!!!! In that select band of people who speak their mind instead of being sheep!

  • #2
    Originally posted by spudula View Post
    What does the NON APPLICABLE (CIVILIAN/FOREIGN FORCES) option mean?????
    Your not in a position to join the integrated reserve as you are a civilian or member of a foreign military.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DeV View Post
      Your not in a position to join the integrated reserve as you are a civilian or member of a foreign military.

      Then that rules out all members of the reserve as we're classed by the DOD as civilians!!!!!!!!!!!!
      Woo Hoo, finally moderated!!!!! In that select band of people who speak their mind instead of being sheep!

      Comment


      • #4
        But you wouldn't have gotten into the RDF in the first place if you were.
        It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Bam Bam View Post
          But you wouldn't have gotten into the RDF in the first place if you were.
          Were what?? a civilian???

          Members of the reserve are civvy's. thats why we have PDF cadre staff looking after us, incase something goes wrong!!

          Who does the PDF battalion/squadron/whatever commander turn to if things go wrong??, the PDF cadre staff. Cause they have resonsibility for the unit and their the ones who end up in the sh1t if things go banana shaped. And please dont give me any lectures on DFR's cause I know from first hand experience that nothing happens except a slap on the wrist for the RDF person while the PDF cadre member got hauled accross the coals because "YOUR SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING AFTER THEM" I believe the term is: "in loco parentis"

          Sure, the RDF member will have to answer in court if we shoot someone, but other then that all that happens to us if things go wrong is we get given out to cause realistically theres nothing else the army can do.The PDF cadre on the other hand can lose their career, pension, get charged, etc if say, important kit goes missing, someone gets badly hurt, whatever.

          Its also the reason the RDF cant do exercises without a PDF member there.

          But to answer the question, yes, next year i will be seeing what this interbagging lark is all about.
          Woo Hoo, finally moderated!!!!! In that select band of people who speak their mind instead of being sheep!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by spudula View Post
            Who does the PDF battalion/squadron/whatever commander turn to if things go wrong??, the PDF cadre staff. Cause they have resonsibility for the unit and their the ones who end up in the sh1t if things go banana shaped. And please dont give me any lectures on DFR's cause I know from first hand experience that nothing happens except a slap on the wrist for the RDF person while the PDF cadre member got hauled accross the coals because "YOUR SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING AFTER THEM" I believe the term is: "in loco parentis"

            Sure, the RDF member will have to answer in court if we shoot someone, but other then that all that happens to us if things go wrong is we get given out to cause realistically theres nothing else the army can do.The PDF cadre on the other hand can lose their career, pension, get charged, etc if say, important kit goes missing, someone gets badly hurt, whatever.

            Its also the reason the RDF cant do exercises without a PDF member there.
            While I've seen the opposite happen in some units, in my unit the PDF cadre staff do paperwork and support, but otherwise stay out of things. All training is done by RDF officers and NCOs (there have been minor exceptions in the case of certain specialist subjects, eg a GPMG instructor course run by cadre for RDF NCOs, since there were no qualified RDF instructors). Similarly, any PDF present on exercises have only been in a support or observational role.

            And y'know what, it works just fine that way.

            Comment


            • #7
              Barry, Im not sayin that they do or dont get involed in training, Im just sayin that their the ones that are REALLY in charge.

              I mean, if you want something done, who does it have to go through???
              The RDF officer/SNCO might come up with the idea but it still has to go through the PDF cadre to the top for approval, they then have to organise everything and ultimately its their heads if something goes wrong.

              I dont want this to turn into a PDF Vs RDF thing. I was just stating a fact that as far as the DOD is concerned, we in the reserve are classed as civilians. Why do you think the cotton wool brigade are so prevelent in the RDF??? Why do we get an A7 lecture everytime we go away??? Surely if we WERE classed as soldiers, (partime or not) the standard expected would be a lot higher????
              Woo Hoo, finally moderated!!!!! In that select band of people who speak their mind instead of being sheep!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by spudula View Post
                Were what?? a civilian???

                Members of the reserve are civvy's. thats why we have PDF cadre staff looking after us, incase something goes wrong!!
                By International law, you are a soldier, not a civvie.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Docman View Post
                  By International law, you are a soldier, not a civvie.
                  which section????
                  Woo Hoo, finally moderated!!!!! In that select band of people who speak their mind instead of being sheep!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Docman View Post
                    By International law, you are a soldier, not a civvie.
                    Want to try and quote the law?

                    We are supposedly an volunteers. DoD does not consider us soldiers or partime workers.

                    We are just the helpers!!!!!
                    Without supplies no army is brave.

                    —Frederick the Great,

                    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by spudula View Post
                      Barry, Im not sayin that they do or dont get involed in training, Im just sayin that their the ones that are REALLY in charge.

                      I mean, if you want something done, who does it have to go through???
                      The RDF officer/SNCO might come up with the idea but it still has to go through the PDF cadre to the top for approval, they then have to organise everything and ultimately its their heads if something goes wrong.
                      The PDF CO is the one REALLY in charge. Under him are the RDF officers. Under them are the RDF NCOs. Cadre are there to do paperwork and organise stuff. If you want to book a training room you'd go to cadre. If you want to plan training you'd go to a RDF officer.

                      Maybe your unit's cadre just doesn't trust RDF NCOs and officers?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by luchi View Post
                        Want to try and quote the law?

                        We are supposedly an volunteers. DoD does not consider us soldiers or partime workers.

                        We are just the helpers!!!!!

                        Its a shame its the truth but thank you!!!!!!
                        Woo Hoo, finally moderated!!!!! In that select band of people who speak their mind instead of being sheep!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by luchi View Post
                          Want to try and quote the law?

                          We are supposedly an volunteers. DoD does not consider us soldiers or partime workers.

                          We are just the helpers!!!!!
                          As RDFRA have proved, it makes no difference what the DoD consider us, by Irish law we are part-time workers. The DoD can call us what we want but we have legal rights under Law.

                          Also, we are soldiers as defined by the 1st Geneva Convention, Chap II, Art 13.
                          Under the Defence Act 1954, you are subject to Military Law while in uniform or undergoing FTT or full active service.

                          Also Chap 1 of DA54
                          Reserve Defence Force.
                          the expression ‘‘the Reserve Defence Force’’ means the constituent part of the Defence
                          Forces which is to be called and known by that name;
                          the word ‘‘reservist’’, when used without qualification, means a man of the Reserve
                          Defence Force;
                          Therefore you are a member of the Defence Forces.

                          Originally posted by Barry View Post
                          The PDF CO is the one REALLY in charge. Under him are the RDF officers. Under them are the RDF NCOs. Cadre are there to do paperwork and organise stuff. If you want to book a training room you'd go to cadre. If you want to plan training you'd go to a RDF officer.

                          Maybe your unit's cadre just doesn't trust RDF NCOs and officers?
                          As per the chain of Command.
                          Cadre are there to aid in the filling out of paperwork - not to do it. Most training, paperwork, room booking etc. should be done by RDF officers and NCOs. Admittedly there is a lot of it and time constraints mean that Cadre staff do more than aid in the filling out of paperwork but if you have to leave paperwork to cadre because you don't know how to fill it out, or think they should fill it out, then you are not doing your job right.
                          Last edited by Docman; 10 February 2008, 01:07.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Barry View Post
                            The PDF CO is the one REALLY in charge. Under him are the RDF officers. Under them are the RDF NCOs. Cadre are there to do paperwork and organise stuff. If you want to book a training room you'd go to cadre. If you want to plan training you'd go to a RDF officer.

                            Maybe your unit's cadre just doesn't trust RDF NCOs and officers?
                            Your right, they dont trust the officers!!!!!

                            Ive seen on more then a few occasions were an RDF officer has said one thing, the cadre NCO said something else and the PDF CO sided (rightly as it turned out) with the cadre NCO. And not just in my own unit either.

                            If i want to book a training room i go to the cadre, if i want to plan an exercise, I do it myself and submit it to the cadre. The LAST person i go to is the RDF officer.
                            Woo Hoo, finally moderated!!!!! In that select band of people who speak their mind instead of being sheep!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You can be subject to military law as a civii too!!

                              So are you only a soldier when being paid as such?
                              Without supplies no army is brave.

                              —Frederick the Great,

                              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                              Comment

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