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  • #46
    Originally posted by luchi View Post

    they have no righ to be called cadre, they are just PDF employed to be there.

    I am sure there are many units that have hard working cadre that are deserving of the title.
    No there's something I'll agree on.
    "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

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    • #47
      The cadre are only there to ensure that paperwork goes through and to pick up unit mail at BN HQ.

      Also they occassionaly use the "contacts" they have made over their careers to allow easier access to equipment for instructional purposes.

      But the overall admin and authority in an RDF COY (for example) is the RDF unit commander and CS.
      It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by trellheim View Post
        Replace 'civilians' with 'part-timers'
        Isn't that one of the things RDFRA have been trying to do?

        Originally posted by Bam Bam View Post
        The cadre are only there to ensure that paperwork goes through and to pick up unit mail at BN HQ.

        Also they occassionaly use the "contacts" they have made over their careers to allow easier access to equipment for instructional purposes.
        .
        And is this not a vital function to ensure the smooth running of a unit?

        Problem is some don't do it, not efficiently anyway. The CS etc can only give a certain amount of time to the RDF. Without reliable connections when needed a unit would be disfunctional.
        Without supplies no army is brave.

        —Frederick the Great,

        Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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        • #49
          I'm not saying its not essential, I'm just saying that a unit wouldn't grind to a halt without its cadre. "Other means" can be found.
          It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Bam Bam View Post
            I'm not saying its not essential, I'm just saying that a unit wouldn't grind to a halt without its cadre. "Other means" can be found.
            And for some there lyeth the problem.

            Poor cadre had lead to people trying to work around them. They want to protect their "job" and so become protective of their position. However instead of being helpful they allow errors to accumulate,. A kind of give them enough ropr scinario. Eventually there is a cock up and the cadre in question blames the RDFer for working around him.

            Kinda tough to crack really.
            Without supplies no army is brave.

            —Frederick the Great,

            Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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            • #51
              Poor cadre had lead to people trying to work around them. They want to protect their "job" and so become protective of their position. However instead of being helpful they allow errors to accumulate,. A kind of give them enough ropr scinario. Eventually there is a cock up and the cadre in question blames the RDFer for working around him.

              Kinda tough to crack really.
              We see that all the time. Its a highly effective tactic.
              "Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper"
              Gen. Robert E. Lee

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              • #52
                What does the NON APPLICABLE (CIVILIAN/FOREIGN FORCES) option mean?????
                Would it refer to non-applicable foreign nationals (outside the EU?) or civilian employees of foreign military e.g British MOD workers?
                There may be only one time in your life when your country will call upon you and you will be the only one who can do the nasty job that has to be done -- do it or forever after there will be the taste of ashes in your mouth.

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                • #53
                  Some CSs have to bring their RDF work to work/home to do it as there isn't enough time in 2hrs per week - and that is for a fairly small unit.

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                  • #54
                    Don't the TA have full time admin staff?
                    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Bam Bam View Post
                      Don't the TA have full time admin staff?
                      Essentially Cadre with a different title (either PSI or PSAO - think PSI is Permanent
                      Staff Instr, PSAO is ??? - help Rod and Serpent, he who knows...)
                      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                      • #56
                        PSAO is Permanent Staff Admin Officer.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Barry View Post
                          PSAO is Permanent Staff Admin Officer.
                          Cheers
                          "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                          • #58
                            TA units have huge amounts of fulltime staff compared to RDF cadre.

                            Each infantry coy would have:
                            - 1 regular Sgt Instr
                            - 1 regular SNCO Instr
                            - PSAO Capt (admin offr)
                            - NRPS CQMS
                            - Civilian clerk
                            - Civilian fitter for vehicle maint

                            Each Inf Bn has:
                            - CO
                            - Training Major (either CO or Trg Major should be TA)
                            - Adjt
                            - QM
                            - Regt Admin Offr
                            - RSM
                            - regular Sigs Instr
                            - NRPS at bn level include armourers and clerks

                            NRPS is Non Regular Permanent Staff (full time soldiers, but not really operational, usually ex regular).

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                            • #59
                              Full timers

                              We have a similar set up over here, Typically a company has the following:

                              Supply Sergeant
                              Admin NCO
                              Training NCO

                              At a battalion level there is usually

                              Admin officer (CPT/MAJ)
                              Ops Officer (CPT)
                              Logistics Officer (1LT/CPT/Warrant Officer)
                              Logistics NCO
                              Senior Supply Sergeant
                              Ops Sergeant Major
                              Senior Admin/Personnel NCO
                              Admin clerk x 2
                              Intel NCO
                              Commo NCO
                              Maintenance NCO
                              Mechanics x 2-4 (depending on type of unit)

                              It varies by type of unit and to a degree by funded positions. Interestingly all these positions are fulltime reservists who are on extended active duty. They must be a member of the unit they work in and drill/train/deploy with them. Some units have issues with full timers thinking they actually run the unit, but strong commanders can stop that. Some commanders are better than others at it. The company admin NCO will do that during the week, then at drill he becomes a platoon sergeant, so they wear two hats.

                              Sometimes I feel like we'd be better off with these being civilians and let the Soldiers do Army stuff, but that has it's own set of complications (ovetime, hours, etc).

                              As you move up to Brigade, etc the footprint gets bigger and there are a few more civilians to do admin work.

                              A

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                              • #60
                                Why can't I get the Killers song out of my head

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXkWW_q_OTM

                                "I got soul but I'm not a soldier"

                                Maybe this could be the new motto of the RDF!!!!
                                Liachta Cultaca
                                BQMS
                                Last edited by Liachta Cultaca; 15 February 2008, 21:50.
                                I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

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