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Integration - A Failure???

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  • DeV
    replied
    That sounds like an excellent idea but what happened the RDF officers and NCOs?

    Also was everything on the syllabus covered?

    Leave a comment:


  • Vamp369
    replied
    The way my unit did integration I thought was very successful.
    The integrated element was to be slotted into a number of PDF platoons, except Recce or Support Wpns.
    We would train with the PDF for one week, their pre exercise training week, followed by their week long exercise so it was to be a fortnight FTT with the first Friday evening and Saturday off.

    In prep for this we were told ok, be here 3 months before the fortnight for a weekend FTT where we would get issued kit like backpack, webbing and then also extra clothing stuff and boots, tracksuits etc. There we did the IT's and revised info on ambushes, patrols etc. Did some contact drills and that was it.
    There would have been another weekend but everyone showed up and knew their stuff so we just parde nights till the exercise.

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  • luchi
    replied
    I have just read back a good bit over this thread.

    Intergration had many problems.

    Some of which can be still seen today such as.
    Dates changing for FTT
    Uncertainty as to what is happening when and where.

    In some cases I must agree that the Cadre dragged their heels.I know that in atleast 2 units people just went around them.

    The fact that, by in large, the PDF (admin) including RDF Cadre works Mon-Fri 9-16.30 with long lunch and tea breaks and the RDF working Evenings and weekends certainally didn't help.

    In some cases it was the fear that the fifedom was to be taken. Some senior officers were very "un-helpful"

    No one can deny there was an anti intergration mafia with in the RDF!!

    All of this lead to the "elephant in the room" i.e. the number of RDF pers that took part was abismal.

    Here is my tu-pence worth for moving forward

    Intergration as a concept is IMHO the way forward.

    PDF train fulltime and then when they leave can go to 1st line reserve.
    Surely it stands to reason that a similar model should be used for the RDF.

    Recruit training should be done with prelims done on parade nights and field days and then a FT period with PDF instructors.
    Their own NCOs should stay with them as they would benifit from the PDF training also.
    2 * Training should follow a similar format however the "soldier" should be required to do certain things such as fitness training between FTT.

    Corps specific training can be done as is now.
    eg driver training done on parade nights and field days followed by FTT on which the pupil is tested.
    However there should also be an annual Intergrated excercise. If run over a bank holiday it could be a 4 day ex.

    The BTC should be PDF. Any RDF pers in current RBTCs should be intergrated there. All career courses should be run by the PDF but "accomadation" made for the nature of the RDF being trained.

    As people move up the chain of comand the requirement for such training is less. They move into more planning and admin roles. These don't need to be sitting around the Glen for FTT in the summer. They do however need to be working with the administrators in the DF. And so for them Parade nights, Field days with the unit but 1-2 days per month, depending on whats required, should be in the Bks ensuring the Admin is done and that the whole organisation runs smoothely.

    OK so I knnow recruit and 2* modules are done and the rest of this is all pie in the sky but it is an idea.

    As the french would say

    Intergration is dead..................long live intergration.

    Leave a comment:


  • madmullen58
    replied
    Not gonna get into all the bitching but il say this as a non int member of the RDF.. The guys thats did go Int are some of the best NCO's iv seen. Real NCO's... they have that bit of PDF in em and will do the job without crying about it or a jury/committee!

    Leave a comment:


  • spaceghetti
    replied
    I wanted to do the integrated course in 2009 before they cancelled it. I did my recruit and 3star camp in 2008 so i couldn't do it that year.

    Most of the lads in my unit wanted to do it and were gutted when it was cancelled. Most of them have gone on to complete the Pot's last year as an alternative, while the rest are doing the Pot's this year.

    Next year all we'll have is recruits and a very small handful of Pte's.

    So basically we still have almost half a platoon of corporals willing to do the course.

    Even if doing integrated required living near the barracks i'd move there. I already work in the city and doing integrated would give me that bit of extra incentive to move.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steyr Fan
    replied
    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    In our unit for integration to happen the cadre had to step in!

    I'd say one of the main reasons integration failed was lack of information, you were basically signing up for a course that you didn't have dates for. I wasn't going to commit to something I didn't know if I could commit to also the terms and conditions were unclear.

    Remember not all units had 2 goes at it!
    We had the dates in Feb, and modified IIRC in April 2008. We knew what was involved. Who had the information that you didn't have?

    It was because of the Cadre that so much of the lead up preparation for Integration was fcuked up. It was not the only reason, but they did not want a cushy job to go just because some baggers could do it instead.

    There is ONE member of the Cadre for whom i have a lot of respect. He was not with us in 2008, but i respect him because when we were moving the other night he did not want to share an office with THEM, so is in with US instead. If you don't know what I mean then you're not meant to know.

    Leave a comment:


  • Steyr Fan
    replied
    Originally posted by Oriel View Post
    How is it the Cadres fault Integration failed?
    Integration failed because only 300 out of over 6000 RDF members bothered putting in for it.
    Dont blame the Cadre, blame the lazy RDF members who want to keep it a social club.
    If you took the time to read my post you may have noticed that I used the word BIGGEST not ONLY problem. There were others, but were lesser, more manageable.

    To awnser your question as to how it is the Cadre's fault - here goes. It's a long one, but you did ask.
    documentation which was supposed to be centralised (as per Cadre CQ instructions) in the run up to the FTT block was not to be found. Missing documents all over the place. Yes this is the task of RDF CQ/CS, but THEY were told to stay well out of it by cadre.
    Medical dates - all cadre were given the dates for medicals, but yet they still gave wrong dates to relevant RDF CS/CQ and Integrated troops. Then I am told (at 2hours notice) that there are medicals on, get the Pln in (from Barracks, plus 4 remote locations!!!)
    Accomodation - some of the bods had to come a journey over 2 hours to do a medical at 0900hrs and then IT's immediately afterwards. Accomodation was supposed to be laid on in CBB but was not. Same again on the first night of FTT. (Note: military driver travels 1 hours to collect bus, 2 hours to collect bods, 2 hours to barracks, then return home. The all that again to return bods at end of IT's. It is a transport issue as well as accomodation).
    Liasion - there was supposed to be Cadre Liasion availiable (not 24hours, but availiable). You should have heard the abuse when I asked who is that liasion. I was told to fcuk off.
    Clothing - most of the troops arrived on FTT deficient in clothing (1 smock, NO boots, ect) The Cadre CQ would not get off his arse to get this organised, but said that the stores wold not issue this that the other blablabla....
    AF245b & FWT - I filled out 14 fwt forms for the Res Bn CO to sign, left them with CQ, a week later they had vanished. I found them on a stack of paper that a Cadre Sgt was shredding.
    Training rooms - week after week, Cadre tell me that the training rooms are unavailable. I approach relevant key holder, ask is there any chance of getting a room, no problem. How many rooms do you want? There never is a problem using the rooms, its just that they are not asked for them

    I could keep going, but even I am getting bored now. (but this thread is not about Integration, or the past, but the future. What about the future??? - is there a future??? Lets have a look ay my crystal ball: Oh yes here we are: the Cadre are going to be

    Leave a comment:


  • trellheim
    replied
    Integration failed because the PDF did not want it - period.
    Correct. It also failed because the leadership within the RDF AT ALL LEVELS has not been motivated

    Leave a comment:


  • DeV
    replied
    Originally posted by Barry View Post
    RDF units taking part in PDF exercises (which happened before integration, and continues to happen after it)
    In some units not all (both pre and post reorg)

    Many PDF units didn't run both years of integration, for various reasons.
    Not all units were to run it the first year (it was trialled).

    Leave a comment:


  • Barry
    replied
    Originally posted by Oriel View Post
    Every PDF unit has at atleast one Exercise per year so there is no excuse why a RDF unit did no take part.
    Integration was more than RDF units taking part in PDF exercises (which happened before integration, and continues to happen after it) - it was about small numbers of RDF (never got above platoon strength) being trained by the PDF. Many PDF units didn't run both years of integration, for various reasons.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeV
    replied
    In our unit for integration to happen the cadre had to step in!

    I'd say one of the main reasons integration failed was lack of information, you were basically signing up for a course that you didn't have dates for. I wasn't going to commit to something I didn't know if I could commit to also the terms and conditions were unclear.

    Remember not all units had 2 goes at it!

    Leave a comment:


  • CS Gass
    replied
    Well said!

    Leave a comment:


  • apod
    replied
    Originally posted by Vickers View Post
    Integration failed because the PDF did not want it - period.
    Bullshit.

    Originally posted by Oriel View Post
    How is it the Cadres fault Integration failed?
    Integration failed because only 300 out of over 6000 RDF members bothered putting in for it.
    Dont blame the Cadre, blame the lazy RDF members who want to keep it a social club.
    Hear,hear.And also lets not forget the RDF Senior officers and NCO's who wanted to protect their little fiefdoms such as shooting teams etc etc.It was more important to some to have more bodies available to march in the Paddys day parade than to see the value of having better trained troops return with their updated skills after a few years.The mind boggles as to some peoples priorities!

    Leave a comment:


  • concussion
    replied
    Originally posted by kermit
    Certain units never got a chance as their parent unit were "too busy"
    Others were not running it at all; those members who wanted to train with infantry were not allowed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Border Bunny
    replied
    Originally posted by kermit
    Certain units never got a chance as their parent unit were "too busy"
    Every PDF unit has at atleast one Exercise per year so there is no excuse why a RDF unit did no take part.

    Leave a comment:

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