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Gobshite, he was a CPL and hadn't he cop to realise he would get hit in the face if he fired it left handed??!! He should be imeediatly removed from the gene pool in case he polutes it further.
My twin brother Kieron, served in the Regular Army with the 28th Bn from 1975 - 2000, he was left handed and managed to fire the F.N. with no bother, in fact as far as I know all left handers managed to do it and I never heard of anybody getting hit in the eye by a spent casing!!!
Mr Dunne had further claimed that the defendant had exposed to danger by
using a defective rifle,
What was the defect? he cocked it, he aimed it, he pulled the trigger, rifle goes BANG!! He goes AHHHHH!!! My Eye, My Eye!!!, So it sounds like it was working ok to me
had failed to provide him with a rifle with equal safety features for left handed soldiers as exist for right handed soldiers,
MY Standing, Lying or prone position scenario: (Just trying to get my head around how you would self-inflict such an injury!!!)
The rifle was quite safe till the "muppet" unless he put his face up close to the ejection opening on the top cover, I do not know why he would have had his head so far forward.
If he had his left eye near the rear sight, (which he should have had) then this would still allow lots of clearance for the casing!! If any eye was in danger it would be the right
and had failed to instruct him never to use a gun in the left handed position.
Must have missed that part of his T.O.E.T.s.
I can understand the concern with the Steyr A.U.G. models the Irish Military used when I served up until 1997 as the ejection port is very close to the face.
Counsel said that the soldiers where instructed to firing blanks from a FN
rifle, at waist level, while charging down a slope.
I do not see how he managed to get a casing from wait belt height up into his left eye!!!
Counsel said that the when fired by a right-handed person the cartilage
goes away from that person's body. His client, it was claimed was not
provided with a breach located on the left hand side of the gun.
Hard to provide what never existed in the history Irish Defence Forces!!!
Mr Kean also told the court that the F.N. rifle, which should be fired from
shoulder level, was deemed unsuitable for use by the permanent members of
the defence force, and was given to the F.C.A. for use in training.
More baloney, the weapon was designed to be fired from the standing, sitting, lying, firing from the waist is quite acceptable, this would put the weapon in a position of equal distance from a left hander or right hander, regardless of which side the ejection port was on, and it was never deemed unsuitable by the P.D.F., it was the decision to go with the 5.56mm Ammo and a suitable weapon to fire it that caused the change.
All weapons are inspected yearly by the Command Armourers and any deemed unfit for use are either fixed at the Battalion Stores, or returned to the Command HQ for more major repairs or boarded.
Counsel added that on July 22, 1998 an instruction was issued by army's
General Office in Command that soldiers were not to use the F.N. rifle in
their left hands.
After the event and while a panic was in the air afraid that others might try and sue, so issue a blanket warning to say, cant claim you were all ordered not to fire left handed.
Maybe the Judge should have attended a weapons demo, to see the weapons in question being fired!
Connaught Stranger
Last edited by Connaught Stranger; 13 February 2008, 21:13.
Reason: spelling
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Reading the article, it seems he was not firing from the shoulder, but instead had been instructed, for God knows what reason, to fire from the hip whilst charging wildly down a hill in a Rambo moment. In that case, it is quite feasible that an ejected case could strike him. It's not a design flaw, it's a stupidity flaw from someone.
Of course, if firing from the hip while running down a hill (in extended line with several others), there's just as much chance that a right handed person will get a smack of a casing in the eye.
"Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"
The fact that the case even made it to courts is troubling...does this mean that the army will have to buy left handed weapons in the future?
Maybe he should have sued F.N. as well for not taking into account that he was left handed.?
Lesson 4 page 28 of the manual of the F.N. Self Loading rifle paragraph 5 states
'It is very difficult to fire from the left shoulder; do not let any one do it unless he can clearly manage left handed.'
All other references to holding refer to taking the pistol grip in the right hand.
Case proven.. the man never read the manual there for he was solely responsible for his own injury
being a corporal who trained persons unknown he would have used the manual during this training... guilty of negligence and failing to comply with a written instruction
case dis missed,,,,!
all instruction is shown from the right hand side.....haven't seen the ammedmet but the book says it should be done unles he is completely unable to fire the weapon from the right at which stake extra training or removal from the class would be acceptable.
This is where the civil law impacts on every thing you traing so be ware of ending up the high court.
Your ownly defence is the manual..stick to it and you can not be held liable..just those who compiled it
unfortunately my manual dates from 1975 and does not contain the outlined ammendments but the text is very clear in the outline on how soldiers were to be trained with the weapon
Last edited by hptmurphy; 5 March 2008, 22:44.
Reason: misinformation
Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
Since the case was settled out of court, there was no ruling and therefore no precident has been sent.
If I remember correctly, the dangers of shooting a Steyr from the left shoulder is stressed during training. I would say that this would severely curtail anyone's ability to sue for injuries sustained as a result of left-hand firing. Given the length of time the FN has been out of service, I doubt we're going to see a glut of similar claims.
"The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."
During my service I fired the FN rifle many times and from the first time I fired it, I was struck by the fact that the empty casing ejected forward and sometimes to a great distance. I witnessed countless left handed firers firing it from every position and never a problem. Now, as we know, the Steyr is a different proposition and anyone who has fired it will know that it ejects to the rear. How anyone got hit by an empty case from their own weapon if it's an FN is beyond me. Let's be honest, he did a great job proving that the empty case came from his weapon.
The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity.
(George Bernard Shaw, Playwright, 1856 - 1950)
Reading the article, it seems he was not firing from the shoulder, but instead had been instructed, for God knows what reason, to fire from the hip whilst charging wildly down a hill in a Rambo moment. In that case, it is quite feasible that an ejected case could strike him. It's not a design flaw, it's a stupidity flaw from someone.
The fact that the case even made it to courts is troubling...does this mean that the army will have to buy left handed weapons in the future?
Why shouldn't they. They are available so why shouldn't they be supplied to anyone that requires them. According to an Inf NCO from Galway there are a few LH Steyrs in the Irish army. I've never seen one but according to him he has.
Maybe he should have sued F.N. as well for not taking into account that he was left handed.?
No. As CT pointed out the issue is not with design, its with some gobshite telling him and others to run down a hill while firing from the hip.
being a corporal who trained persons unknown he would have used the manual during this training... guilty of negligence and failing to comply with a written instruction
..................
the manual makes no allowance from firing from the hip and all insttruction is shown from the right hand side.....
And so who ever dreamed up the idea of doing it in the promo should have been busted back to Pte.
Of course, had he been wearing safety goggles at the time....
True.....but as barry stated firing from the hip while running down a hill with lads to your left and right increases the risk of being hit by a hot case. The only thing about being LH is that he had the added risk of being hit by his own case.
Originally Posted by hptmurphy
The fact that the case even made it to courts is troubling...does this mean that the army will have to buy left handed weapons in the future?
Why shouldn't they. They are available so why shouldn't they be supplied to anyone that requires them. According to an Inf NCO from Galway there are a few LH Steyrs in the Irish army. I've never seen one but according to him he has
I have never seen them nor even have I heard talk about them
and I was one of the testers for the 4 types of LSW'ssssssssss
so you can say again that
according to an NCO from DUblin there are NO LH steyrs in the Irish Army
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
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