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  • #31
    Originally posted by The Thing View Post
    The Mowags are the most potent equipment available to the Infantry, almsot every driver and gunner will tell you that they are a terrible buy as the Army refuse to maintain them as they should. If you have vehicles go off the road overseas because fitters don't have seals that cost a few Euros a piece what does that say about our army...?
    Originally posted by The Thing View Post
    ...at least 25% and sometimes upwards of 50% of the Mowags were off the road due to basic problems that could have been servicable if the correct parts had been supplied.
    The positive that I would take from these statements is that it is indicative of the training and skills of our fitters and mechanics that our various fleets are being kept on the road. The negative is... "Time to replace the MOWAG or should we just shut up whinging"
    The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity.
    (George Bernard Shaw, Playwright, 1856 - 1950)

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    • #32
      The Mowags were not a terrible buy.They are perfectly adequate for our needs.What WAS terrible is the penny pinching when it came to the purchase of spares.Instead of having a stockpile of spares the dept instead relied solely on the guarantee.Problem was that everything had to come from Switzerland.Sometimes that would not be fast enough so they would bastardise cars instead(white rhino anyone?).I also saw techies from mowag working on the cars in Kosovo and Liberia. Kosovo was particularly bad as they had to come out twice during my tour for the same car!
      I believe the spares issue is being resolved with the building up of a stockpile(about time)but thats more likely to do with the expiary date of the warranties of the first cars bought than any forward thinking
      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Malek
        [

        A bit too late for that in your case



        Why leave? Why not stay and try and fix it. A sensible debate about his complaints on this forum may be a first step for him. Judging by the response his remarks have had so far maybe it's safer for him to remain annonymous and not raise the issues from within the military.



        I didn't say that. I've seen bad soldiers eat a pack ration a day

        And I have a very fulfilling life and the moment thanks.



        It might in some way considered soldiering if it was done independantly from the GS. Following two members of the GS around the border huddled up in a Landrover/Nissan Patrol hardly equates to hard core soldiering. The border patrols never achieved anything either way.



        Not soldiering.



        Only one overseas tour during your service. Didn't you like it?



        That doesn't sound fair. Would it be considered a form of bullying?


        [/B]

        And so you should be.

        I'm not quite sure what to make of this statement. Are you saying that your comrades were monkeys?:confused: [/QUOTE]

        Hallo Malek,

        By some of your comments you are not aware of the duties performed on the Border, we did not follow members of the G.S. around we patroled mainly without them, in canvas topped Landrovers and Toyota Landcruisers lots of patrols went out alone, to show a visible pressence along the border, members of the GS were only with us (or more correctly, we were with them, seeing as they requested security) if we were to provide back up for vehicle checkpoints as the G.S. have the right to search cars and not the Army. As for the comment Border Patrols achieved nothing anyway its another indication you know what you are talking about.

        As for the "not soldiering" comment, we were there as "Aid to the Civil Power" based in Military Barracks in Dublin, wearing Army uniforms, and using Civil Defence equipment, "Green Godess" Fire engines, under the command of an Army Officer & NCO's.
        Just the same as the guys who were involved in the Bin Strike, and the Army Drivers who provided Public Transport Service in Army lorries, and moved fuel around the country from Depot to Petrol Stations.

        No, I did not consider my being sent on attachment to theCurragh as bullying, it was par for the course, and what I was there for. Maybe I should have applied for a rent a wife

        As for searching for bodies of missing fishermen, the Donegal families were appreciative for the help of the military in conducting the search, as a soldier you do NOT get to choose the tasks alloted you, you do them without whinging!

        With regards one tour overseas, due to an accident in service, I was medically downgraded, but still classed as fit for duties, but not allowed to serve overseas, or do an NCO's course, though I know but that's life.

        My comment with regards monkeys needs clarification, We were paid in peanuts and WE were the Monkeys, for most of my service there wasno P.D.F.O.R.R.A. so we just got on with the job.

        The only way I can sum it up is, depending on the times, we all had / have complaints, the veteran's of the 40's had it tough, the veteran's of the 50's had it tough, the veteran's of the 60's and the 70's had it tough, but the job had to be done, I can't recall anybody writting in letters of complaint with regards their experiences to newspapers.

        Connaught Stranger.
        Last edited by Connaught Stranger; 28 February 2008, 18:36.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
          I'm not quite sure what to make of this statement. Are you saying that your comrades were monkeys?:confused:
          Hallo Malek,

          By some of your comments you are not aware of the duties performed on the Border, we did not follow members of the G.S. around we patroled mainly without them, in canvas topped Landrovers and Toyota Landcruisers lots of patrols went out alone, to show a visible pressence along the border,

          Connaught Stranger.[/QUOTE]

          Would this be the famous Blacklion Checkpoint where the lads on checkpoint were told by the landlord in the local pub he didnt mind em drinking in the pub on duty but no rifles in with them. (note this would have been 70's)
          Was told this one by my uncle. Aslo in the same group on gaurd around some power station where on of his lads fell in a hole and squeezed off a few rounds leading to the rest of the gaurd up for the the night trying to figure out what happened.

          P.S ths is a complete tangent to the actual thread
          Lifes a bitch, so be her pimp!

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          • #35
            Army pay - fuppin good for such a job.

            security of job - your not going to get any better

            food - 5 * hotels will sell a nut to have an army chef.

            exhitment, adventure - its the army, your call.

            Cash escorts, and other bolloxy jobs- dont last forever.

            bullying - there are so many ways out there to fix a bullying issue, these methods are drilled into your head on day 1.

            The army is probably the best job on earth for any normal person who wants a little more than 9 - 5. Cry babys will always exist, never happy in their place in the world, whether its the army, or micky D's. So shit or get off the pot.
            If the DF is such a cat place to be, why are there so many in it, joining, and will always join.
            Wingers dont last, as we have just seen. Where the thing go?
            Facts are meaningless - you could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Bosco View Post
              Hallo Malek,
              [SIZE="4"][FONT="Times New Roman"]
              Would this be the famous Blacklion Checkpoint where the lads on checkpoint were told by the landlord in the local pub he didnt mind em drinking in the pub on duty but no rifles in with them. (note this would have been 70's)
              Was told this one by my uncle. Aslo in the same group on gaurd around some power station where on of his lads fell in a hole and squeezed off a few rounds leading to the rest of the gaurd up for the the night trying to figure out what happened.

              P.S ths is a complete tangent to the actual thread
              Hallo Bosco,

              I say it could be possible, if the NCO and 3 Privates wanted to take a great risk to do so, of course there was a choice of 6 pubs in Blacklion, and the Checkpoint is located next to the Gardai Station. There were also patrols from Finner and Manorhamilton dropping in on spot checks, so the occasion for a tipple would be stressful to say the least. Besides the locals were not so friendly towards the location of an armed checkpoint in the middle of the village, put a crimp on the smuggling activities

              In the early 1970's to about 1978 the 1st Bn. from Galway, manned Manorhamilton Military Post, and were responsible for Blacklion C.P. (they were barred from most of the pubs in Manorhamilton, but thats another story).

              With regards Cliff Power Station, there were no holes to fall into, the beat outside, along the perimeter fence was well light with spotlights, as was the way across the Dam to the security gate on the far side, (and their were always two sentries on duty outside, to patrol the fence) and from the way you write the story, the sentry had his rifle cocked and safety off for such an occurrence to happen (not very likely).

              As Clayhore Checkpoint was located near to the Cliff Power Station any such burst of shots would have attracted immediate attention

              The only occurrences of live ammo being used in Cliff, that I know of, were, when a challenge was unanswered, a case of a dead cow!, a round being fired at a person climbing over the main gate who failed to answer the sentries challenge, Finner Duty officer required a new cap, as well as a pair of underpants, (claimed he was testing the security, to see if the sentries were asleep, and that there was no challenge given, During the inquiry, one sentry swore he heard the other sentry make the required challenges).

              Two round discharged negligently in the Guardroom, by a soldier playing with his weapon

              A Private, "Tom the Bomb" F------ had a negligent discharge outside on the perimeter beat, he cocked his rifle and drew a bead on a Goose flying overhead, Goose produced as evidence as to where the round went, when he was up on charges, I kid you not.

              Connaught Stranger

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
                a round being fired at a person climbing over the main gate who failed to answer the sentries challenge, Finner Duty officer required a new cap, as well as a pair of underpants, (claimed he was testing the security, to see if the sentries were asleep, and that there was no challenge given, During the inquiry, one sentry swore he heard the other sentry make the required challenges)
                Any assh0le that does something like that deserves all he gets. I came across it once overseas. I find it a totally irresponsible and frankly downright brainless thing to do. Do these so-called officers think that their rank will somehow make them immune to being shot by a sentry or that a member of the great unwashed enlisted will not have the intelligence or the b*lls to do their job.

                Rant over. Back to thread.
                The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity.
                (George Bernard Shaw, Playwright, 1856 - 1950)

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                • #38
                  I have read this thread with great interest. The opening salvo of issues that The Thing say go from deadly serious to laughable. The deadly serious is the bullying. I am sure there is someone of NCO or officer rank you can report these claims to. You simply have to. We all, from the Chief of Staff to the newest recruit take an oath of loyalty to the Constitution and the Defence Forces (and as far as I know officers take the smae oath). Therefore, it is your duty to report these claims. Don't simply whinge about them in a chat room. Get on with it.

                  The check parade at 1615...last time I checked working day was 0830 - 1630. Don't whinge about actually having to be in bks for a full working day (note I didn't say work!). There are 2 issues here: trust and respect. This works both up and down. Without it the organisation will not go on. Therefore, having these parade's is a sign something is wrong. But the unit has to legislate for the lowest common denominator - the waster. Until NCO's see trust and respect coming from the soldiers, and the latter (and the officers too) earning this from their subordinates this situation will continue.

                  The 'driver comfort' remarks are a sad reflection on the author really.

                  No-one wants to sweep leaves in bks. We all want to be out doing a soldiers job. However, get real...this will never be the case 100% of the time. CIT's are a part of the job. Without them and the rest of ATCP the DF would have a strength of 5,000 (including AC & NS). So weigh the pro's and con's (including the pay, time off, overseas and courses available) and if you don't like it...sod off. There's plenty of recruits coming through the gate.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by parade boy View Post
                    I have read this thread with great interest. The opening salvo of issues that The Thing say go from deadly serious to laughable. The deadly serious is the bullying. I am sure there is someone of NCO or officer rank you can report these claims to. You simply have to. We all, from the Chief of Staff to the newest recruit take an oath of loyalty to the Constitution and the Defence Forces (and as far as I know officers take the smae oath). Therefore, it is your duty to report these claims. Don't simply whinge about them in a chat room. Get on with it.

                    The check parade at 1615...last time I checked working day was 0830 - 1630. Don't whinge about actually having to be in bks for a full working day (note I didn't say work!). There are 2 issues here: trust and respect. This works both up and down. Without it the organisation will not go on. Therefore, having these parade's is a sign something is wrong. But the unit has to legislate for the lowest common denominator - the waster. Until NCO's see trust and respect coming from the soldiers, and the latter (and the officers too) earning this from their subordinates this situation will continue.

                    The 'driver comfort' remarks are a sad reflection on the author really.

                    No-one wants to sweep leaves in bks. We all want to be out doing a soldiers job. However, get real...this will never be the case 100% of the time. CIT's are a part of the job. Without them and the rest of ATCP the DF would have a strength of 5,000 (including AC & NS). So weigh the pro's and con's (including the pay, time off, overseas and courses available) and if you don't like it...sod off. There's plenty of recruits coming through the gate.
                    Fair comments me thinks, and most of them reflect my own opinions too.... However, I mean to address the Thing with some straight forward answers and what I have to say to thing is;

                    1. Bullying is not an issue anymore compared to what used to go on, and this A7 business bestows as much power to the Private as one could possibly imagine in terms of bullying redress. Im told it works and if anything, NCOs are watching even their language when addressing recruits and Ptes.. so to insinutate its a real problem thats as widespread as wildfire now is more a reflection on the pathetic person who wrote it... Being a soldier is about being able to fight, and if you cant lodge a complaint, cos youre afraid, go find another job... However, Id say complaints from walter mittys are found out pritty quick.... whingers tend to go that route with the slightest change in mood from what I can see...

                    2. If you dont like a parade at 16.15hrs, when your working, then get over it quick or get a new job... sheesh.... feckin panzy talk that... hate to see a real issue like having to fight a war....

                    3. If your arse is too soft for Nissans, get another job.....

                    4. If you dont like the duties, get another job...

                    Point is thing, you seem like a miserable moaner, who hates his job and those around him. Well do them and you a favour and get a another job... The Army is full of ladz dedicated to the job, and put up with the oddities of the military cos they like what they do... so why not move over and let a youngster join up and fill your slot with a bit of entusiasm and professionalism...

                    Exo...

                    p.s. Im not good at PC,so I dont try.... in case youre wondering....:wink:
                    "There is nothing braver then the heart of a volunteer" Lt. Col. Dolittle, USAC, 1941.

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                    • #40
                      Should be remebered that at any time you can leave the DF if its not to your liking

                      Ok it can be a bit expensive at certain times but for anybody who has done the firts term of engagement the realistaclly go into the next term with a fair insight of what they are getting themsleves into.

                      If its not to your liking and aspects of it will never change.. just go...the army is not going to change in any major fashion just because some think it should.

                      The concept of what the army does has been refined to where it is at now due to an evoloution period over several decades.

                      The rate of progression can only be appeciated by those who served through the lean times on into better times and yes it could be better but its never going to be perfect..it doesn't have to be.. its not heavily infleunced by trade unions or best industrila or commercial work practises.

                      It has changed almost inconcievalbly over the past twenty years and those who were there in times previous to those twenty years will testify to this.

                      The changes that took place in that twenty years took place faster than anyone in that time could have imagined.

                      If after 10 years service or so you are still not happy with the rate of progress you ain't going to be around to look back in twenty years time and see the next eveloution.

                      In my own experince if jobs don't change at the rate you require for job satisfaction.. may its maybe yourself who has to find fulfilment else where rather than waiting for the job to provide it.

                      I'm deliberately not commenting on existing matters as I simply don't know on a broad scale but looking at the lifestyle , pay and conditions, opppertunities etc it certainly is a different DF to my time.

                      I have been lucky to get an insight into it from time to time but as I don't live it day to day I can't realyy comment on what ist like to do as a full time job any more.

                      I certainly do know that the NS is a completely different entity to that I served in the 80's but there was a different mindset then but I reckon the gripes we had are stiil much the same..but no workplace is entirely perfect.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • #41
                        Overall the defence forces do look after their men and as being previously said civvy street may look attractive but just think of when you have to Clock in and Clock out and at the end of the shift if you are 15 minutes late you are docked half an hours pay this brings to light that the uniformed life aint that bad....

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