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  • #31
    I was talking generally about the DF been a family and that in many cases when people left having served 21 years when they left they found/find it had to adjust to civilian life (I wasn't specifically talking about those you served on the border).

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    • #32
      Originally posted by DeV View Post
      I was talking generally about the DF been a family and that in many cases when people left having served 21 years when they left they found/find it had to adjust to civilian life (I wasn't specifically talking about those you served on the border).
      This thread is specifically about a report alleging extraordinary stress and trauma suffered by troops serving on the border. Apparently I never "served" there, but while I was doing duty on the border, the most traumatic thing I suffered was having to spend hours observing cows in a field in Monaghan.

      I'm agog to hear of specific incidents of trauma suffered by "real" border soldiers. And I'm not talking about being cold, damp, tired, away from home and not getting a medal for it.
      sigpic
      Say NO to violence against Women

      Originally posted by hedgehog
      My favourite moment was when the
      Originally posted by hedgehog
      red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

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      • #33
        The only real incidents of trauma that I can recall happening in Donegal but not specifically related to the border area itself was an incident at a quarry, when ever blasting was to take place a patrol would be dispatched to escort the explosives to the quarry, and they would have to remain until the detonation had taken place, in this case after the main blast, the following incident occurred, when some idiot of a civilian threw a box (which contained detonators) and which he thought to be empty in amongst some surplus gelignite, explosive wrappers and cardboard boxes the explosives had been transported in, which had been set on fire for disposal as S.O.P.
        The resulting explosion killed one soldier and badly injured 4 others and wrecked two landrovers.

        Connaught Stranger.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
          In the context of having served on the border, I served on the border.




          So why are they whinging now? Apart from trying to create another avenue to fleece the taxpayer of course.


          Utter rubbish.



          Well they are now, a little medal for their ONE blazer and a whack of compo.



          No point in trying to insult me, I have no feelings.



          Well who exactly is this report about if not members of the 27th, 28th and 29th Bns. As you said yourself they are the ONLY troops who served on the border. So who contributed their pathetic whines to this report?
          Ok, im gonna simply this real quick!!... I AM sure that not ONE member of my old company ACOY would have asked for such a medal, nor would they whinge about it... like anybody who thinks they would is just talking shite and has NO IDEA about what they are talking about.. the culture in the 29th for those who obviously dont know what they are talking about is one of "persecution of whingers!", and it worked well... we had NO whingers and loads of professional soldiers... As for insulting you mate, I havent, I dont do half measures... when I insult people, its harsh and straight in your face... Back to the whiney asses we got from the commands to beef up numbers, they did complain, whinge, moan... and they did it in barrel loads... we thought them a bunch of big pusseys... and laughed at them for it.. Which brings me to the next point, if its gonna produce medal, then try not be no bloody begrudging about it... it disrespects the units who would be cited for it... and since they dont deserve such disrespect, it only reflects negatively on those who choose to do it...

          p.s. Im being nice about this, if some of the old timers dialled in and got a smell of whats floating around on this thread, they would have some harsh words to post... :redface:
          Last edited by Exo1; 9 March 2008, 12:06.
          "There is nothing braver then the heart of a volunteer" Lt. Col. Dolittle, USAC, 1941.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Exo1 View Post
            Ok, im gonna simply this real quick!!... I AM sure that not ONE member of my old company ACOY would have asked for such a medal, nor would they whinge about it... ... :redface:
            So it was just the 27th and 28th Bns then. Sounds reasonable to me.

            If you have no time for whiners why are you defending them now?

            Anyway, I shall leave the Field of Moaners to those who feel the need of additional compensation for the imaginary dangers associated with border soldiering. Enjoy your windfall and your shiny new medal.
            Last edited by Groundhog; 9 March 2008, 15:30.
            sigpic
            Say NO to violence against Women

            Originally posted by hedgehog
            My favourite moment was when the
            Originally posted by hedgehog
            red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
              So it was just the 27th and 28th Bns then. Sounds reasonable to me.

              If you have no time for whiners why are you defending them now?

              Anyway, I shall leave the Field of Moaners to those who feel the need of additional compensation for the imaginary dangers associated with border soldiering. Enjoy your windfall and your shiny new medal.

              Smells like sour grapes to me Groundhog... and for the record, I have NO intention of claiming for anything, you dont award an accountant compensation for counting numbers, do you??... your assertion is insulting and absurd... and also, Im not in anymore, so I dont think any medals will be coming my way, and I will not be going looking for them...

              As for defending whingers, I think I have made myself perfectly clear that my brother soldiers were anything but whingers. They had faults like us all but whining like a little girls was not one of them.... they were in my time there stand up guys, whom I felt honoured serving with...
              "There is nothing braver then the heart of a volunteer" Lt. Col. Dolittle, USAC, 1941.

              Comment


              • #37
                I can contribute to this argument only in the context of having served on the other side of the border.

                Whilst we had other things to occupy us, such as the occassional MK15 mortar, or landmine, I must say that I have to agree with some of what B Inman's original thread said. Being exposed to constant hatred, real or perceived, does grind one down. I can say, from personal experience, that that is the one thing that really got to me at that time. And in hindsight, it did cause me a degree of stress. You can have all sorts of drills to counter threat a,b or even c. But hatred, being constantly told you deserve to die, worrying about your family etc,etc,etc is hard to deal with.

                Stress manifests itself in different ways. For some, it is easily dealt with. I consider myself in that category. For others, not so. I have served with a number of men who have taken their own lives in the last 10 years. Not good. I was at a funeral on Friday, of a former colleague, who died at 41 years old. The Minister made mention of the fact that he suffered from 'flashbacks', and that he tried to deal with them by drinking. He drank himself to death. No-one could help him.

                I can't say what it was like for the Irish Soldier or Policeman. But I do imagine that a combination of difficult working conditions, exposure to abuse from civilians, a feeling of a lack of appreciation for your service from the general public etc,etc combined with the risk of a 'contact' could cause certain people stress and possible emotional problems in later life.

                Thats my tuppence h'appenys worth

                Sorry if I've`ranted on.
                'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                • #38
                  Not a rant man thanks for the input...

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Exo1 View Post
                    As for defending whingers, I think I have made myself perfectly clear that my brother soldiers were anything but whingers. They had faults like us all but whining like a little girls was not one of them.... they were in my time there stand up guys, whom I felt honoured serving with...
                    But yet you will not condemn those who contributed to this report which demeans anyone who ever served in the DF.
                    sigpic
                    Say NO to violence against Women

                    Originally posted by hedgehog
                    My favourite moment was when the
                    Originally posted by hedgehog
                    red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by spider View Post

                      I can't say what it was like for the Irish Soldier or Policeman. But I do imagine that a combination of difficult working conditions, exposure to abuse from civilians, a feeling of a lack of appreciation for your service from the general public etc,etc combined with the risk of a 'contact' could cause certain people stress and possible emotional problems in later life.

                      Thats my tuppence h'appenys worth

                      Sorry if I've`ranted on.
                      Hallo Spider,

                      the Irish Defence Force were NOT in anyway subject to the same situation as the British Soldiers in Northern Ireland, apart from the odd shout of "FREE STATE BASTARDS" as we drove through Bundoran in our military vehicles from the Northern Nationalists who flocked there for their annual summer holidays and the odd punch-up in the bars and discos, I cannot recall any specific threats.

                      The Irish Defence Forces, were not being actively targeted by the I.R.A. and we were never fired at, by them, to my knowledge, in fact in the I.R.A. training pamphlets captured / obtained were instructions of what to do should they be discovered by members of the Republics Security Forces, along the lines of:


                      " 1. Approach the leader of the Security Forces, explain you are on training / mission.

                      2. Explain your mission is directed solely against the "British Occupation Forces in Northern Ireland" and request that you and your men be let go with their weapons.

                      3. Do not resist arrest, do not use weapons against the Security Forces of the Republic.

                      4. Any failure to comply with the above, will result in a Republican Court Martial where the penalty of death or a lesser sentence can be handed down if you are found guilty of contravening these regulations.

                      I defy any past serving individual of the Irish Defence Forces to state a single case of the hardships they are claiming and to back it up with proof.

                      Probably the biggest gripe would be about the amount of overtime the Garda on the Border checkpoints were clocking up, compared to the paltry Border Allowance received by the soldiers working alongside them.

                      Connaught Stranger

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Groundhog View Post
                        But yet you will not condemn those who contributed to this report which demeans anyone who ever served in the DF.
                        Groundhog, Im defending my brother soldiers, whom were never whingers, and to be honest, although 11 years has passed now, I could not see them now, nor whinging 40 years from now... its just not done!!.. then as is now... The 29th had some "local values" which were directly suited to the tasks we were set, and this was ingrained into every soldier... one of them was an acceptance of the job at hand, the continuing nature of it and getting girly about it was forbidden.... those values are as true to me now as they were then, so you can understand why I react to those who desrespect my brother soldiers... cos they would never do the same in return..

                        ACOY & The 29th have conducted themselves in the highest standards of the Defences Forces, their members a credit and their mission complete!!.. Thats all the "recognition" I need... I know it, my bother soldiers know it and thats all that counts!!.. any amount of desrespect from other elements of the Defence Forces or the Civilian Population will never change those unwaivering facts, never!!....

                        Exo..
                        "There is nothing braver then the heart of a volunteer" Lt. Col. Dolittle, USAC, 1941.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
                          Hallo Spider,

                          the Irish Defence Force were NOT in anyway subject to the same situation as the British Soldiers in Northern Ireland, apart from the odd shout of "FREE STATE BASTARDS" as we drove through Bundoran in our military vehicles from the Northern Nationalists who flocked there for their annual summer holidays and the odd punch-up in the bars and discos, I cannot recall any specific threats.

                          The Irish Defence Forces, were not being actively targeted by the I.R.A. and we were never fired at, by them, to my knowledge, in fact in the I.R.A. training pamphlets captured / obtained were instructions of what to do should they be discovered by members of the Republics Security Forces, along the lines of:





                          I defy any past serving individual of the Irish Defence Forces to state a single case of the hardships they are claiming and to back it up with proof.

                          Probably the biggest gripe would be about the amount of overtime the Garda on the Border checkpoints were clocking up, compared to the paltry Border Allowance received by the soldiers working alongside them.

                          Connaught Stranger

                          Read my posts exchange with Groundhog, I have made the case perfectly clear in it the position of myself as an exBorder Soldier and that of my brother soldiers...
                          "There is nothing braver then the heart of a volunteer" Lt. Col. Dolittle, USAC, 1941.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by spider View Post
                            I can contribute to this argument only in the context of having served on the other side of the border.

                            Whilst we had other things to occupy us, such as the occassional MK15 mortar, or landmine, I must say that I have to agree with some of what B Inman's original thread said. Being exposed to constant hatred, real or perceived, does grind one down. I can say, from personal experience, that that is the one thing that really got to me at that time. And in hindsight, it did cause me a degree of stress. You can have all sorts of drills to counter threat a,b or even c. But hatred, being constantly told you deserve to die, worrying about your family etc,etc,etc is hard to deal with.

                            Stress manifests itself in different ways. For some, it is easily dealt with. I consider myself in that category. For others, not so. I have served with a number of men who have taken their own lives in the last 10 years. Not good. I was at a funeral on Friday, of a former colleague, who died at 41 years old. The Minister made mention of the fact that he suffered from 'flashbacks', and that he tried to deal with them by drinking. He drank himself to death. No-one could help him.

                            I can't say what it was like for the Irish Soldier or Policeman. But I do imagine that a combination of difficult working conditions, exposure to abuse from civilians, a feeling of a lack of appreciation for your service from the general public etc,etc combined with the risk of a 'contact' could cause certain people stress and possible emotional problems in later life.

                            Thats my tuppence h'appenys worth

                            Sorry if I've`ranted on.
                            Thanks for the insight from the other side of the Border....
                            "There is nothing braver then the heart of a volunteer" Lt. Col. Dolittle, USAC, 1941.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I am saddened by the response from most of the posters on this thread. I am saddened at the lack of understanding of what is a very serious issue for soldiers. Post traumatic stress is a real issue and it affects each person differently. Some people can handle it and some people can't. During World War 1, those that couldn't handle were often shot for cowardice, during World War 2 they were deemed to be people of low moral fibre and were shunned by their peers. I thought that we had moved on from that and begun to understand the effect stress has on people. People who claim to have suffered from stress are not neccessarily "whingers" they do not need to "grow a pair". In fact given the reaction that people get from their peers (if the responses here are anything to go by) I think that anyone who is willing to speak has a pretty big set. In the 90's the DF recognised that about 90% of soldiers serving on UN missions experienced some level of post traumatic stress, however most recovered within a few months of returning. It was for that very reason that they started to improve the family liaison services in order to explain the impact and to provide support for those that needed it (I am not saying that what exists is perfect but there was certainly a recognition of a potential problem).

                              While I have never served in a traumatic or stressful environment I have seen the impact such service has had on my brother. From my observations the few months after he returned from overseas were always stressful, he was a different person, quite ratty all the time and often argued over minor things. Graduallly he would return to normal.

                              What we need to do rather than slagging off our fellow soldiers is to recognise that there is a problem and provide support rather than abuse to our comarades.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                                I am saddened by the response from most of the posters on this thread. I am saddened at the lack of understanding of what is a very serious issue for soldiers. Post traumatic stress is a real issue and it affects each person differently. Some people can handle it and some people can't. During World War 1, those that couldn't handle were often shot for cowardice, during World War 2 they were deemed to be people of low moral fibre and were shunned by their peers. I thought that we had moved on from that and begun to understand the effect stress has on people. People who claim to have suffered from stress are not neccessarily "whingers" they do not need to "grow a pair". In fact given the reaction that people get from their peers (if the responses here are anything to go by) I think that anyone who is willing to speak has a pretty big set. In the 90's the DF recognised that about 90% of soldiers serving on UN missions experienced some level of post traumatic stress, however most recovered within a few months of returning. It was for that very reason that they started to improve the family liaison services in order to explain the impact and to provide support for those that needed it (I am not saying that what exists is perfect but there was certainly a recognition of a potential problem).

                                While I have never served in a traumatic or stressful environment I have seen the impact such service has had on my brother. From my observations the few months after he returned from overseas were always stressful, he was a different person, quite ratty all the time and often argued over minor things. Graduallly he would return to normal.

                                What we need to do rather than slagging off our fellow soldiers is to recognise that there is a problem and provide support rather than abuse to our comarades.
                                It is you who are totally wrong with your comments. (Apart from reference to Overseas service, which was not so traumatic for most members of the Defence Force who served overseas, only the few who were involved in war-like situations which involved: land-mines, shelling, and shots fired,) this is about men who were stationed on the border between 1968 onwards until the situation with regards accommodation, recreation, food, etc etc was drastically improved in the early 1980's.

                                I, on the other hand have a very good idea as I was stationed on the border, at Finner Camp from 1976, and the biggest problem if anything, encountered was caused by drinking in excess, and petty crime.

                                Reference to WW1 or any war, for that matter plays no role here, no one were being shot at, no one was living in trenches, no one was under continual bombardment or had to witness their comrades being blown to pieces, and we were not continually exposed to bad weather conditions, and we were not the targets of daily terrorist attack.

                                So there was nothing to get P.T.S.D. from, it was basically a 08:30 to 16:30hrs daily job, most men when on leave, long weekend could get home well inside of 12 hours at the max 24 hours, many had girlfriends living locally, many never were pushed about going home to see their families to often. In fact many joined to get away from home.

                                And the main point was we all VOLUNTEERED to join the military, the option to buy ones self out was there, as well as the option not to extend your service after the initial 3 years was up.

                                This report, which the thread is based upon, is about how bad the military had it, is a dammed lie, perpetrated by people on the scrounge for free money, it seems Ireland has fallen into the American "Lets Sue" mentality, and the words I would use for any man who claims "his service was so terrible on the border" is pathetic.Yes there were whiners, there will always be whiners, but, why did the perpetrator's of this myth wait so long before doing anything about it.

                                I am perfectly willing to stand in a Court of Law in Ireland and declare that service in the Irish Defence Force at the time was not as bad as these arse-holes claim.

                                Connaught Stranger
                                Last edited by Connaught Stranger; 10 March 2008, 15:58. Reason: spelling

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