Soldiers Stress Report

[Groundhog]

I agree with the above statement save the whingers part, I have seen one or two alright, but they have being told to shut the f**k up in short order, which is referring back to the point I made on the culture of the 29th... I accept your point, but our culture there knocked such moaning on the head... those who persisted generally went out of the Battalion quick enough from what I could see...

Your second paragraph deals with the report, my posts are about the unbelievably disrespectful slurs made about border units on this thread, and that I will NEVER tolerate!!!... as to the report itself, I started to read it, and couldnt stomach any more!!... I cant speak for every soldier since that start of the 29th, the insuation that I could is as absurd as they come, whereas common sense prevailing, I would be talking about those folks I worked with, and proudly so!!.. and on that note, I cant see ANYONE I worked with or came in contact with from the Border units contributing to such a report. Its a bloody disgrace... and nearly as shameful as the bluffers who went for hearing compo when they had unaffected hearing..

You're obviously not the sharpest chisel on the carpenter's bench or you would have copped by now that the criticism is being levelled at, the report, the whingers who cotributed to the report and the ONE for commissioning the report.

I cant speak for every soldier since that start of the 29th, the insuation that I could is as absurd as they come,..

You're right on both counts although absurdly enough you tried.

noone from the border units (permanently stationed) for my time there ever cribbed or whinged about conditions,..

I AM sure that not ONE member of my old company ACOY would have asked for such a medal, nor would they whinge about it...

the message Im trying to get across is that nobody I know in the border units would ask for such recognition...

What Im saying is that noone in my COY or Battalion would ask for such treatment...

I cant see ANYONE I worked with or came in contact with from the Border units contributing to such a report....

So who exactly do you believe contributed to this report which, as you say yourself, is an absolute disgrace?

[Groundhog]

... and as I said, you dont compensate accountants for counting numbers, so why would you compensate soldiers for soldiering. .

What else is this report for if not to set in motion a compo gravy train.

... Oh by the way groundhog, your attempt at pulling my posts apart is rather sad, Id expect more from a seasoned Viking like yourself!!...

Viking. *spit* who the fcuk are you calling a viking.

[Exo1]

Why not, it seems to have worked for you. Your schoolboy perception of reality belongs in the fantasy world of xbox and playstations. I know a lot of bods who served with the Border Units (in your world only Battalions served there), some exceptionally good soldiers who are up there with the best, a hell of a lot of good soldiers and a number of whingers that are part and parcel of most units I've come into contact with over the years.

This report will do nothing but bring ridicule upon the Army and the Border Units once it is dissected and properly analysed and I know it willl embarass the first class soldiers that I know who served on the Border over many years. All this because whingers who have poor personal standards want to try and use their Military Service to in some way excuse these poor standards and justify their personal inadequicies and deficiencies.

On your first paragraph, I see my out of order jibe has provoked an equally childish reponse... I was trying to show you how disrespectful such comments are when they are made without knowing the full facts and whom one is talking to... I dont know you, yet I made it... to make the above point, so I apologise if I offended you, but even that that, Im still unsure if you got the point I was really trying to make.


"I know a lot of bods who served with the Border Units (in your world only Battalions served there), some exceptionally good soldiers who are up there with the best, a hell of a lot of good soldiers and a number of whingers that are part and parcel of most units I've come into contact with over the years. "

I agree with the above statement save the whingers part, I have seen one or two alright, but they have being told to shut the f**k up in short order, which is referring back to the point I made on the culture of the 29th... I accept your point, but our culture there knocked such moaning on the head... those who persisted generally went out of the Battalion quick enough from what I could see...

Your second paragraph deals with the report, my posts are about the unbelievably disrespectful slurs made about border units on this thread, and that I will NEVER tolerate!!!... as to the report itself, I started to read it, and couldnt stomach any more!!... I cant speak for every soldier since that start of the 29th, the insuation that I could is as absurd as they come, whereas common sense prevailing, I would be talking about those folks I worked with, and proudly so!!.. and on that note, I cant see ANYONE I worked with or came in contact with from the Border units contributing to such a report. Its a bloody disgrace... and nearly as shameful as the bluffers who went for hearing compo when they had unaffected hearing...

Unless someone whats to goto the bike sheds at 4pm to scrap, I think theres nothing more to be said on this topic.....:redface:

[Truck Driver]

Oh by the way groundhog, your attempt at pulling my posts apart is rather sad, Id expect more from a seasoned Viking like yourself!!..

Exo.

Exo, that's the other Hog you're thinking of....

[Exo1]

Lol.

I'm a window licker with as much service overseas as you have at home:wink:

But then again, I never served overseas in your eyes because I was rotated in and out and not stationed over there permanently

Xbox doesnt count!!!!.....

[Exo1]

As I said you cannot speak for the 29th Bn or even A Coy of the 29th Bn.



If I want to pass comment on a bunch of moaning pussies who needed the rest of us to rotate through the border units because they couldn't hack it, then I will.



What a convincing argument.



You're entitled to a medal for showing up for work as long as you punch in ten years.



Apparently you guys want a medal for moaning.



For exercising our right to freedom of expression. Democracy in action, it's what you were paid to defend.

Groundhog is a good forum name for you mate, cos its like groundhog day again and again.. This game of tennis we are playing is going nowhere, so I shall leave it at this...

1. I agree with the notion of doing your job, and doing it well... and as I said, you dont compensate accountants for counting numbers, so why would you compensate soldiers for soldiering. This is an open and shut point, and IF anyone would go any other way from the border units, then they are an ABOLSUTE disgrace.. despite all that is said here, I CANNOT even imagine anyone I came into contact with doing that, and thats a whole lotta people...

2. The reputation of a unit is built on its actions, and unless you are in the unit, you will never know all that is done, this is standard and relevant to ALL units.. anybody who likes filling in the subsequent blanks with assumptions is a jackass!!..

3. IF and I mean IF somebody has gotten a brain fart and rallied for compensation for border units based on their experience, their claims will be investigated by those who know the story, confirm or not confirm the claims and make recommendations to the brass for action or not based on what they have found. This investigative process will have to determine a pattern in said units and once confirmed determine if they confirm to the level that is claimed by said claimants...

The topic of this post can be summed up with the above 3 points... the lack of respect for border soldiers, assumptions, and sour grapes posts consistutes the majority of the rest... You gotta be crazy if you think a border soldier would roll over and agree to be demeaned in this manner.. we did our jobs well, its now done, and we drive on!!... PERIOD!!..

Oh by the way groundhog, your attempt at pulling my posts apart is rather sad, Id expect more from a seasoned Viking like yourself!!..

Exo.

[Exo1]

I did a few years with the 27th in the mid 70s. It was the nearest we could get to what I considered soldiering in those days . Remember there was no UN overseas then..
Yes looking back living conditions were bad by todays standards but then again living conditions in Ireland were not as good as they are now, We did long hours, cold and wet and generaaly we wished for a bit of excitement which we got in small doses. The amount of work in relation to VCPs , mobile patrols, static guards, callouts etc was high but the esprit the Corps was there , but there was no No 1s and littel bull. At that tme most of the troops were from non border counties, the north , all counties etc later local guys joined up and the sense of team spirit changed as it became a more 9 to 5 job this is no reflection on the local guys its just taht they had another life This report and the compo cliams that it may encourage is a reflection on our compensation, nanny society .. there is no need for medals , my discharge book is all that is necesary.There will always be wasters moaners in any unit group of peopel unfortunately they seem to get more publicity now a days. As for post traumatic... its a load of crap I soldiered elsewhere took part in some serious combat and neither 99 PERCENT OF THE GUYS i keep in contact who served with me even mention PTDS . WE were just doing our job yes a few guys went pingo but noy from action on the 6 counties border.

Finally, a reasonable opinion...

[BANDIT]

I did a few years with the 27th in the mid 70s. It was the nearest we could get to what I considered soldiering in those days . Remember there was no UN overseas then..
Yes looking back living conditions were bad by todays standards but then again living conditions in Ireland were not as good as they are now, We did long hours, cold and wet and generaaly we wished for a bit of excitement which we got in small doses. The amount of work in relation to VCPs , mobile patrols, static guards, callouts etc was high but the esprit the Corps was there , but there was no No 1s and littel bull. At that tme most of the troops were from non border counties, the north , all counties etc later local guys joined up and the sense of team spirit changed as it became a more 9 to 5 job this is no reflection on the local guys its just taht they had another life This report and the compo cliams that it may encourage is a reflection on our compensation, nanny society .. there is no need for medals , my discharge book is all that is necesary.There will always be wasters moaners in any unit group of peopel unfortunately they seem to get more publicity now a days. As for post traumatic... its a load of crap I soldiered elsewhere took part in some serious combat and neither 99 PERCENT OF THE GUYS i keep in contact who served with me even mention PTDS . WE were just doing our job yes a few guys went pingo but noy from action on the 6 counties border.

[Groundhog]

No NO NO!!... your still missing my points!!!.... What Im saying is that noone in my COY or Battalion would ask for such treatment,

As I said you cannot speak for the 29th Bn or even A Coy of the 29th Bn.

and if they did, who are you or anyone else to bitch moan and begrudge such a request was granted....

If I want to pass comment on a bunch of moaning pussies who needed the rest of us to rotate through the border units because they couldn't hack it, then I will.

... maybe they are too thick to understand what a moaning soldier sounds like

What a convincing argument.

...maybe they will take a "soldiers word for it" and award unit medals to all the 3 Battalions for showing up for work??...

You're entitled to a medal for showing up for work as long as you punch in ten years.

...like I dont more which is more rediculous, the notion that border troops would get a medal for moaning,

Apparently you guys want a medal for moaning.

...or the you people should be ashamed of yourselves!!..

For exercising our right to freedom of expression. Democracy in action, it's what you were paid to defend.

[Groundhog]

... the message Im trying to get across is that nobody I know in the border units would ask for such recognition, ...and know from its content it did NOT come from us,...

You cannot possibly know any such thing. You are purporting to speak for everyone who ever served in the 29th Bn, possibly a couple of thousand people. You personally might have been an exemplary soldier, but please don't lie and say that there were never any wasters in your unit because every unit has them.

... and noone in border units would tolerate the desrespectful slurs and innuendos that the members of this forum have pasted them with. ,...

The people who contributed to this report disrespected themselves and their comrades and let down the entire Army. If, as you claim, you had any respect for yourself, your unit and your comrades, you would have no hesitation in condemning these muppets.

... We (29th) are happy with no debate over our record (which is pritty impressive if you knew the facts) and going into the history books on that note is 100% fine with us. ,...

I'm sure you are and I'm sure it is. The job you did just isn't unique to soldiering in general.

... .... From your posts, Im certaintly not talking about the 28th, different Commands, etc have made a difference from your insights, which is fine.,...

So it's just the 27th doing the bitching then.

.... macho'ism is fine for the wannabees, but for those really in the thick of it, theres no room for breast beating, its simple needs based actions... you need to or not!!.. and those brave souls should nothave to face such condesenation by seeking out help... .,...

Exo, you served in Monaghan for a few years, not fcuking Basra, Beirut or the London Blitz. You're talking shite.

[Exo1]

Yes, stress exists and different individuals react to it in different ways. But what were the uniquely stressful conditions or situations suffered by large numbers of troops based permanently on the border? Connaught Stranger came up with one incident. Exo1, despite supporting the idea, came up with none. His sole argument is that because I only served intermittently on the border I cannot have experienced the same level of trauma despite doing the same jobs that members of the 27th, 28th and 29th Bns did.

No NO NO!!... your still missing my points!!!.... What Im saying is that noone in my COY or Battalion would ask for such treatment, and if they did, who are you or anyone else to bitch moan and begrudge such a request was granted.... do you think AHQ are stupid?? hmmm??... maybe they are too thick to understand what a moaning soldier sounds like and just drop kick a medal out to "shut them up"???.... Hmmm??.. maybe they will take a "soldiers word for it" and award unit medals to all the 3 Battalions for showing up for work??... like I dont more which is more rediculous, the notion that border troops would get a medal for moaning, or the posts on this thread... out-bloody-ragous!!!.. you people should be ashamed of yourselves!!..

[Exo1]

Which was for the awe inspiring total of three and a half years, ending in 1997. I think the report, crap that it is, was referring to a period long before you began posing around the border area. I don't think it had Monaghan Barracks in mind either when looking at poor conditions.



By what yardstick does someone with your service use to measure what Battalion, if any, has the right to claim to be the best in the land

WTF... who are you calling a poser???... Wind that neck in window licker!!....

I have enough experience working with the other battalions from southern and eastern commands to know what the sound of whinging and whining is about.. Is that good enough yard stick for you BOY!!!....

Im certainly not gonna justify my military service to a window licker like you, so take stock that some of us in this country had the balls to dothe job right, and not whine whinge and moan about it... had I being there 23 and half years, Im sure Id have more reason to whinge, but I wasnt... however, for those who were, id have time for that kinda of whinge, which is withwhile rather then listening to a window licker stick his chick breast out for the ladz like you do!!.... pathetic!!....

[Exo1]

Hallo Exo1.,

Thank you for your reply, what I highlighted above is one of the points I was trying to get across in my posts, the conditions on the Irish Border since the introduction of better equipment, accommodation, food, even down to the fixed purpose built border posts are "light years" away from the conditions experienced post 1968 - 1985 era.

With regards P.T.S.D. related to shell-shock and combat conditions (etc) its hard for any ex Border Battalion veteran to truthfully claim this condition when there was nothing traumatic happening than having to bull ones boots for the annual G.O.C.'s visit

Connaught Stranger.

Connaught, Im not going to harp on this much longer, but the message Im trying to get across is that nobody I know in the border units would ask for such recognition, and noone in border units would tolerate the desrespectful slurs and innuendos that the members of this forum have pasted them with. We (29th) are happy with no debate over our record (which is pritty impressive if you knew the facts) and going into the history books on that note is 100% fine with us. I never heard of this report until I saw this disgraceful thread, and know from its content it did NOT come from us, but the disrespect and bitching comments seem to fall on us regardless.... From your posts, Im certaintly not talking about the 28th, different Commands, etc have made a difference from your insights, which is fine....

As I have commented on previously, I nor my colleagues are fakers and dont seek medical assistance when its not really needed, I nor my colleagues have never seen a quack and those who showed weakness upstairs on arriving to us, usually got a transfer to Dublin....

That said, on a wider note, if anybody did truely need to see a quack, then they should do so feeling that they are not demeaned by the ingorant opinions of their peers.... macho'ism is fine for the wannabees, but for those really in the thick of it, theres no room for breast beating, its simple needs based actions... you need to or not!!.. and those brave souls should nothave to face such condesenation by seeking out help...

As for the GOCs... well having to wear No1s once year renewed my happyness about being in combats for the rest of the year.... now THATS trauma!!...

[Groundhog]

My point was my disappointment at the reaction to those that claim to have experienced stress. Stress affects us all differently, two people who are involved in exactly the same situation can have completely different reactions. So just because you did not experience stress does not mean that others didn't. Stress exists, and talking about it helps. We do not encourage that if when someone says that they have had a problem we tell them to suck it up and grow a set of balls.

Yes, stress exists and different individuals react to it in different ways. But what were the uniquely stressful conditions or situations suffered by large numbers of troops based permanently on the border? Connaught Stranger came up with one incident. Exo1, despite supporting the idea, came up with none. His sole argument is that because I only served intermittently on the border I cannot have experienced the same level of trauma despite doing the same jobs that members of the 27th, 28th and 29th Bns did.

Lets look at the reported causes of the stress and trauma;

And harassment by local civilians was blamed as the most common cause of stress among the military..

I remember getting a bit of slagging off civvies in Cavan and Castleblaney about being Maggie Thatcher's lapdog or something like that. Lots of abuse from prisoners in Limerick and Portlaois Prison. Sh!t even gobshite civvies in my hometown would throw out the deaf soldier rub. I cry myself to sleep at night over this kind of thing. Harrassment from civilians is not unique to the border counties.

The most common symptoms were outlined as irritability and anger, being upset by reminders of the past, estrangement from others, sleep difficulty and being constantly on guard...

My wife would say that that describes me to a T. According to Exo1 I didn't serve on the border so there must have been something else that causes this stress. Then again the most stressed man I know never served in the DF, he runs his own electrical contracting business and thrives on adrenalin and 16 hour days. Stress is a fact of life and not unique to border soldiering.

The report confirmed the long-held view that the Defence Forces were not prepared for conflict when it erupted in 1969 and that their equipment, training and conditions were not adequate to meet the needs of the border campaign....

Border soldiers did not exist in 1969.

- Soldiers often had to work in cold and damp conditions and were called out at short notice with little rest between patrols.

Did it in Kilworth, the Glen, Kilbride, Limerick, Portlaois and various parts of County Tipperary. Being cold and damp and subject to sudden call out is not unique to the border.

- Barracks conditions were primitive in the early days.

No argument there. The old guardroom in Limerick Prison was bad, the new one little better. I slept in asbestos lined rooms in a barracks in the south until 3 years ago. Kilworth and the Glen were shite.

- Family life was affected by long absences, fatigue and stress.

Yup. We've all done that. Oddly enough I was away from home for long periods when I wasn't serving on the border while the lads who were serving there went home off duty because they lived locally.

- Many appeared to be suffering from trauma and stress.

Awww. Don't we all. You just have to deal with it.

-Poor pay in the early days also added to the stress factor. .

We are all on the same pay with the bonus for the border soldier of Border Allowance.

-A large number had difficulty in adjusting to life outside the Defence Forces and often depended on the material support of family and friends.

I feel sorry for their family and friends. Maybe they should apply the 11th Commandment.

[Bravo20]

I'll admit that my border experience is limited to a week of guard duties in the 90's, I don't profess to understand the conditions or the experiences of those who served at that location. Except to express my thanks to all those that fulfilled a vital function during a critical period in our history.

My point was my disappointment at the reaction to those that claim to have experienced stress. Stress affects us all differently, two people who are involved in exactly the same situation can have completely different reactions. So just because you did not experience stress does not mean that others didn't. Stress exists, and talking about it helps. We do not encourage that if when someone says that they have had a problem we tell them to suck it up and grow a set of balls.