Engineers in the DF

[luchi]

So now that all that historical evidence of manhood is out of the way lets get back to the over seas topic.

As I understand it the Reserve is supposed to be just that, a reserve of personnel that the DF can call upon when needed.

When I signed up that meant that in time of need you would be required to support the DF. In the past that has meant many things as we have just seen.

But for the future, especially in relation to the press item above, please someone tell me how the Minister etc expects to have RDF professionals and Trades people serve over seas when they refuse to recognise the qualifications of those people.

In the past 6 mths I have come accross a number of mechanics, fitters, engineers, Artic drivers, coach drivers, crane operators, electricians, plumbers, architects and a demolition expert in numerous units that would like to be recognised. Even to the point of being willing to transfer to "appropriate units" but the DF has continiuosly refused to recognise them.

Considering the extremely slow pace that the DF moves how can they hope have RDF specialists unless of course they intend to have them as CIVVIS employed by the DF!!!!!!!!!

[GoneToTheCanner]

Hi there
If they are certified or whatever by Fas, then the DF has no choice but to accept their credentials.They probably don't want to get into arguments about paying Tech pay.It'd be dumb of the DF not to make use of their talents.
regards
GttC

[luchi]

If they are real Engineers, not of the mayey uppy variety, they can and are recognised.

Only partially true.
If I/they have a qualification that is recognised by IEI at the equivelent level of CEng then IF there is an Eng Officer vacancy then you can apply for that post. However there is currently no posts available so PFO.

Hi there
If they are certified or whatever by Fas, then the DF has no choice but to accept their credentials.They probably don't want to get into arguments about paying Tech pay.It'd be dumb of the DF not to make use of their talents.
regards
GttC

Trade certs are issued my numerous agencies. However if there is a trade post available then suitably qualified persons "may be assesed by an assessment board". There hasn't been one conviened in over 20 years.

If a trades person has advanced themselves and completed an Eng Degree then they have moved themselves into limbo. They are no longer trades and they are not CEng ant the DF to date has refused to accept the fact that they are stil capable trades persons.
Also if a trades person becomes an officer then, unless an engineer, the DF will also ignore qualifications because there are no tech officers out side the engineering.

Just to prove the stupidity of this.
We were doing a artic course. A problem developed with the trailor breaks. An officer, who is employed as garage mgr for a large haulage company but non the less is a qualified fitter, diagnoised the fault and told the local bks workshop. They had no qualified trailor fitter so he offered to do it. They refused his offer opting instead to have the vehicle off the road for 5 months while someone was sent on a course. The repair job took 20mins.

You might gather from this little rant that this lack of recognition effects me personally and I have gone through the mill numerous times.

[Bosco]

Only partially true.
If I/they have a qualification that is recognised by IEI at the equivelent level of CEng then IF there is an Eng Officer vacancy then you can apply for that post. However there is currently no posts available so PFO.
.

You need to be a chartered engineer to be an Engineering Officer in the DF.:confused: How do they manage to do that. IEI absolute min requirement for chartership are 3 years professional experience if you have a a MEng. If you only have your BEng then its 4 years.
From the horse mouth:

http://www.engineersireland.ie/InternationalAgree/chartengineer.pasp

If the DF have some way around this I would love to know cos I am in the process of this andwould take the shoot and salute course in the Curragh anyday over the mountains of paperwork that I'm doing at the moment.

[luchi]

Yeah there are.

Really, where, RDF or PDF
Most of the 62 Eng officers do not hold appointments. They got a recent addition. A medical CS with eng qualifications was made Lt. There are a lot of noses out of joint but thats the way it goes.

I understand that it's only MIEI, and not CEng also.

I don't understand because from R5 section 27 (2)b we have

A person (including a reservist) who is in possession of a university degree or diploma or an equivalent qualification, or who possesses other special
qualifications of military value, may, subject to the existence of a vacancy in Establishments for which his particular qualifications are appropriate, be
nominated to be appointed to be an officer of the Reserve Defence Force provided that they -
(i) are not more than forty-five years of age on the date on which they are examined by the Interview Board referred to in subparagraph (iii) hereunder;
(ii) have a medical classification not lower than - year of birth - 22 - 512 - as defined in Defence Force Regulations A.12 (Part VI), and

(iii) is recommended by an Interview Board nominated by the Chief of Staff.
No person shall, however, be nominated to be appointed to be an officer under the provisions of this subparagraph to fill a post as Engineer Officer in the Army Reserve unless they hold a university degree in Engineering or a university degree in Architecture or is a Member of the Royal Institute

of Architects of Ireland or a Corporate Member of the Institution of Civil Engineers of Ireland or a Graduate member of the Institute of Electrical Engineers or of the Institution of Mechanical Engineers (who was elected or transferred to such Corporate or Graduate membership as a result of passing the examinations prescribed and conducted by these Institutions).

But
Just before christmas I applied for DE to officer post. I got a written reply from D Trg, to say that not withstanding the above requlation members of the RDF are required to be Chartered members of the IEI. Also with in the RDF technical posts [officer] only exist in the Eng Corp however currently no such vacancies exist. And that I have surpassed the trade qualifications and would not be considered for a lesser post.

If you have access to my unit personnel files you can look it up. The letter is attached to my file.

I was also informed verbally from my CO that there are No RDF posts that a primary degree or diploma are sufficient. Likewise there are no posts that could be filled by persons "who possesses other special qualifications of military value"

However last night I was told that D.Trg want the names of pers with eng and trade qualifications in order to compile a list of persons suitable for overseas duty. Amazing how the rules are fluid.

You need to be a chartered engineer to be an Engineering Officer in the DF.:confused: How do they manage to do that. IEI absolute min requirement for chartership are 3 years professional experience if you have a a MEng. If you only have your BEng then its 4 years.
From the horse mouth:

http://www.engineersireland.ie/InternationalAgree/chartengineer.pasp

If the DF have some way around this I would love to know cos I am in the process of this andwould take the shoot and salute course in the Curragh anyday over the mountains of paperwork that I'm doing at the moment.

NO you need to be a chartered member only if you are RDF wanting to take the direct entry route.
The engineers have eng and non eng officers. Mine laying, EOD and other such posts are non eng. Also this rule does not apply to PDF.

[Liachta Cultaca]

Really, where, RDF or PDF
Most of the 62 Eng officers do not hold appointments. They got a recent addition. A medical CS with eng qualifications was made Lt.There are a lot of noses out of joint but thats the way it goes.

Can you elaborate on this please?

[luchi]

A CS in an RDF medical unit, who is qualified as an engineer, took up a post in an engineer unit.

I don't know the guy personally but my own CS asked me why I didn't go for the post. My answer was simple, when I enquired I was told all professional posts were filled and there were no vacancies arising in the forseable future.

Thats all I can say.

[Bosco]

Really, where, RDF or PDF
NO you need to be a chartered member only if you are RDF wanting to take the direct entry route.
The engineers have eng and non eng officers. Mine laying, EOD and other such posts are non eng. Also this rule does not apply to PDF.

So let me get this straight if you are a member of the RDF and have just gotten your B-Eng you cannot be commissoned as an officer until you do 4 years professional experience(3 with a masters) and become chartered.
Yet if you do an 8 month(correct me if I'm wrong on duration) shoot and salute course you will get commissoned. THat sounds pretty dodgy to me.

If I understood this correctly they are sayng that 8 months of military training is quivalent to 4 years hardbloody graft.

[luchi]

So let me get this straight if you are a member of the RDF and have just gotten your B-Eng you cannot be commissoned as an officer until you do 4 years professional experience(3 with a masters) and become chartered.
Yet if you do an 8 month(correct me if I'm wrong on duration) shoot and salute course you will get commissoned. THat sounds pretty dodgy to me.

If I understood this correctly they are sayng that 8 months of military training is quivalent to 4 years hardbloody graft.

No, No, NO..............I am surprised the officers in IMO didn't stop you with this. The Shoot and Salute course only lets yo be an infantry 2Lt unless you have been a cpl or sgt in the pdf for , i think, 15 years then you can be an Lt also if you were of senior NCO rank you with 15 years done you can go directly to Captain. THis does not apply for RDF.

Having the professional qualification allows you in theory to be promoted to the officer ranks if there is a vacancy that is compatable with your qualification. In the medical and eng corps these posts are well defined. How ever in other areas this is not the case.
A simple example of this would be in the CIS. A guy that teaches the PDF radio techs is in an RDF unit. He is not qualified in the DF to repair the coms. Now figure that one!!So if this guy wants to go over seas will they suddenly recognise his qualifications and training or would he be sent as a signalman. If the recognise the quals will they give the appropriate rank (AFIK Captain) and then reduce him to Sgt again when he returns to the RDF?

At this point I must say. This announcement is typical political BS. I wonder has willie been told he is out of defence when the cabnet is re-shuffled. Then next year he can tell RDFRA 'I really wanted to send you but the new minister has other ideas'

Or any kind of clear goal. The TA can say "Join up, we'll train you, and you'l go to Afghanistan". The RDF says "Join up, we'll train you, and then......um.......we'll see what else we have to entertain you".

Maybe thats what willie is trying to do. FCA did nothing but the new RDF will go places..........roll up, roll up to be taken for a ride!!!!!

[fred the red]

A CS in an RDF medical unit, who is qualified as an engineer, took up a post in an engineer unit.

I don't know the guy personally but my own CS asked me why I didn't go for the post. My answer was simple, when I enquired I was told all professional posts were filled and there were no vacancies arising in the forseable future.

Thats all I can say.

REDRESS.

[Bravo20]

A CS in an RDF medical unit, who is qualified as an engineer, took up a post in an engineer unit.

I don't know the guy personally but my own CS asked me why I didn't go for the post. My answer was simple, when I enquired I was told all professional posts were filled and there were no vacancies arising in the forseable future.

Thats all I can say.

Sounds like a good case for a redress here.

[Groundhog]

Hi there
If they are certified or whatever by Fas, then the DF has no choice but to accept their credentials.They probably don't want to get into arguments about paying Tech pay.It'd be dumb of the DF not to make use of their talents.
regards
GttC

You'd think that wouldn't you.

[Groundhog]

So let me get this straight if you are a member of the RDF and have just gotten your B-Eng you cannot be commissoned as an officer until you do 4 years professional experience(3 with a masters) and become chartered.
Yet if you do an 8 month(correct me if I'm wrong on duration) shoot and salute course you will get commissoned. THat sounds pretty dodgy to me.

If I understood this correctly they are sayng that 8 months of military training is quivalent to 4 years hardbloody graft.

You won't get an Engineer appointment after commissioning as a 2/Lt.

[trellheim]

Is the engineer direct entry relevant to the wider RDF Overseas thread ? If not, can we move it out please into its own thread ?

Also, why doesn't RACO or PDFORRA get in here and debate the issues ; you can see how relevant they believe us to be by not even bothering to engage .

[luchi]

It is relevent because they are looking for qualified pers to take up posts that carry rank.

I am a cpl but depending on the academic level that I may be considered the post would be Fitter Sgt or Engineering Tech officer which is a Captains post. Now we know that you can have a cpl acting as a sgt but can you have a cpl acting as a Captain for the sake of oversead duty?