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  • #46
    I actually see connaught stranger's point about the oath. Anything that needs to be clear to everyone (such as what number you are when sizing off, otherwise people might not have the foggiest notion if they're odd or even) should be done in the vernacular language. Jeez, even the catholic church copped on to that one!

    As far as people not knowing how to count to 100 in Irish, why would they? We take non-nationals and there is no educational requirement for joining. That means no requirement for Irish to be known. People get exempt from Irish in school too for all sorts of reasons and if they have been exempt it usually means that even the dept. of education think it's too much to expect them to learn a foreign language for whatever reason! And btw, Irish is as foreign as French or German when it comes down to it because it's not your everyday language and you have to learn it from scratch.

    For the record, I have no issues with Irish.
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

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    • #47
      The school system is the problem. It teaches Irish the same way it teaches English, assuming you use it in everyday conversation, as dev wanted. I know I learnt more Irish in 6 months at Templemore that I did for all the years in secondary school.
      It should be taught like a foreign language. i.e Conversational, rather than concentrating on obscure poetry and prose by odd people.


      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
        The school system is the problem. It teaches Irish the same way it teaches English, assuming you use it in everyday conversation, as dev wanted. I know I learnt more Irish in 6 months at Templemore that I did for all the years in secondary school.
        It should be taught like a foreign language. i.e Conversational, rather than concentrating on obscure poetry and prose by odd people.
        I couldn't agree more. Well I'd actually add a bit more on to the end of that statement.

        In gaeltacht areas it should stay as it is. They should be expected to be able to do an irish language version of the english paper. In non gaeltacht areas higher level irish should be only slightly harder than higher level german, french, italian or spanish. Oh and before anyone starts on a rant about that being unfair on gaeltacht inhabitants... my neighbour is dutch and her daughter wanted to do dutch for the leaving cert. The dept of ed said ok, but the paper would be pitched at a native speaker's level and be a dutch version of the english paper.

        So they've already taken the view that if it's your native language/you happen to be bilingual, then you have to do a harder exam then a LC HL German/French paper.

        As it stands there is an unfair bias against people who aren't native speakers. Having 2 versions of the Leaving cert irish papers (at both higher and ordinary levels), one for native speakers and one for non native speakers, is the only way that it will not be unfairly biased for/against any group.
        Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
        Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
        Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
        Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
          That maybe so, but, when you do your "swearing in" or taking the oath to serve,

          did you do it in English or Irish?
          My first time was in English. The second was in Irish.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by trellheim View Post
            Some of us never left and are mods

            Referring to someone's rank in Irish is not a tradition but a right under the Defence Act
            The Military Fainne is one of the few badges you can wear on your DPMs

            Not being able to count in Irish is a moot point [ remind me next time we fall people in from outside the battalion to do the hAon, Do ,Tri, lesson ] and was not purely practiced by 1 Cn Cois or Complacht na bhFiann.

            to answer the OP: There is NO official Irish speaking unit in the RDF. Complacht na bhFiann was amalgamated with the rest of the 20Bn into 62 Bn at the reorg in 2005.

            There IS a DOD/DF Policy on Irish and this can be downloaded from defence.ie and should help you with your questions.
            I can Proudly say I am a former member of E Company:wink:

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            • #51
              I'm gonna go do all my drill in latin from now on, nobody will know what I'm on about but I'll look well smart, so there.

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              • #52
                The french forign legion takes non french speakers and expects them to have passable french at the end of recruit training. We take non Irish speakers and expect them to understand and say a couple of words. Maybe if we were more like the Legion there would be more people with a greater pride in the language.

                And by the way in 1982 I sat the French Higher paper. It contained Poetry and Prose. It was a french version of the english paper as you say. The paper was "dummed down" because students need points for college rather than learning the finer points of a language.
                Without supplies no army is brave.

                —Frederick the Great,

                Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by luchi View Post
                  The french forign legion takes non french speakers and expects them to have passable french at the end of recruit training. We take non Irish speakers and expect them to understand and say a couple of words. Maybe if we were more like the Legion there would be more people with a greater pride in the language.

                  And by the way in 1982 I sat the French Higher paper. It contained Poetry and Prose. It was a french version of the english paper as you say. The paper was "dummed down" because students need points for college rather than learning the finer points of a language.
                  correct me if im wrong but the purpose of the RDF is to be a military type organisation, not a finishing school, lets focus on the soldiering and let the school teachers do the teaching of language.....

                  and legionnaires dont learn proper french, they learn drill commands through french, and the learn to address their superiors in french so they learn the minimal amount needed for the job at hand, (very similar to the RDF dont ya think)
                  But there's no danger
                  It's a professional career
                  Though it could be arranged
                  With just a word in Mr. Churchill's ear
                  If you're out of luck you're out of work
                  We could send you to johannesburg.

                  (Elvis Costello, Olivers Army)

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by luchi View Post
                    The french forign legion takes non french speakers and expects them to have passable french at the end of recruit training. We take non Irish speakers and expect them to understand and say a couple of words. Maybe if we were more like the Legion there would be more people with a greater pride in the language..
                    What you mean is that the French language is beaten into them !!! Read "Hidden Soldier" by Padraig
                    O'Keeffe
                    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                    • #55
                      Its an option.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                      • #56
                        I can Proudly say I am a former member of E Company
                        So can I, as can at least 10 members of this site.
                        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by turbocalves View Post
                          and legionnaires dont learn proper french, they learn drill commands through french, and the learn to address their superiors in french so they learn the minimal amount needed for the job at hand, (very similar to the RDF dont ya think)
                          My info on the legion is second hand. But according to a lad I knew french was taught not "beaten in to him"
                          He learned to talk in french as that was the only language that was spoken in their bks not just drill commands. The fact that in his recruit platoon he was one of the few non native french speakers and the only native english speaker may have had a bearing but does not change the fact that they all were expected to speak one language. They recieved no weapons training until they were able to understand the instructions that they were given.
                          IMHO we have become so anglo-american that people here would find any excuse to kill off the language. What sort of heritage is this generation going to leave their kids?
                          Without supplies no army is brave.

                          —Frederick the Great,

                          Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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                          • #58
                            While French may be the official first language of the Legion,

                            and used in all their training and drills etc..etc..

                            for many years the unofficial second language was German,

                            reflected by so many of the Legion members traditionally coming from

                            that country.

                            Connaught Stranger.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                              So can I, as can at least 10 members of this site.

                              Yeah I know, You were a Cpl when I was there:wink:

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
                                While French may be the official first language of the Legion,

                                and used in all their training and drills etc..etc..

                                for many years the unofficial second language was German,

                                reflected by so many of the Legion members traditionally coming from

                                that country.

                                Connaught Stranger.
                                Well that confirms what I said.......................

                                The only reason we don't do everything through irish is because no one could be bothered.
                                Without supplies no army is brave.

                                —Frederick the Great,

                                Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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