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  • Defence budget cuts

    There are rumours of a cut in the defence budget as a result of the downturn in the economy and a reduction in forecasted tax revenue.

    Will this affect RDF moreso than PDF ?

    Are we likely to see a return to the 1 x weeks camp and no paid w/ends and a reduction in equipment etc ?

    or will we see the RDF being utilised more as they are a cheaper option ?

  • #2
    Aren't they already effectively downsizing the Reserve? The Chad mission caused them to increase the Transport budget this year for the PDF. This would drop back next year to normal levels. However, in the scheme of things, the Defence forces are possibly the best value for money in the Government Purse.

    There are many other more wasteful areas that significant savings could be made. Electronic Voting machine storage.... PPARS(?)

    However defence is always a soft target.....In the past they hit the DF budget by cancelling the MLH, deferring the LTAV twice and Pistol replacement. The Latter two are only just back on track, but the MLH died.
    Currently significant projects in the pipeline for next year are 4x4 replacement, Motorcycle escort replacement, LTAV Phase 1 and 2, and of course my personal favourite, Naval OPV and EPV. Already the EPV has been pushed back.
    Its not just Defence though. Justice too suffers. The Gardai need new comms. The system was on trial back in 1995. Last year an announcement was made that the new comms system would be rolled out.
    No contract has been signed so far...
    Prisons closed, new ones were promised. The minister arrived in Kilworth to oversee the proposed site for the new one. Meanwhile staff and inmates from Spike were squashed into the Victorian overcrowded Cork prison.
    The ground has not yet been broken on Kilworth prison.

    One thing about the DF Tenders is they always have the clause stating that they retain the option not to award any other contract. Its a quick way of cutting your losses.

    However the root of the problem is never tackled. While Ireland was doing well, and the Celtic Tiger still had claws, the Minister for Finance(now Taoiseach) sat on the cash instead of investing. Everyone knew a slump was on the way, but we held on to a surplus, boasted about it, when all financial experts said we should be spending, on infastructure, assets, all the other long term things that we could be benefiting from today. Now we are back in minus money.

    However, you have only yourselves to Blame.

    You voted FF back in. You believed them when they told you that everything would be fine. You spurned the opposition parties with their stories of doom and financial gloom.

    Expect cutbacks everywhere. Its the 1980s all over again.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

    Comment


    • #3
      Some of the cuts in the past :

      When I joined in 1986 you could only do 7 days camp
      and there was a limit on the numbers who could attend.

      Granted we were several times larger.

      By the way, they're not rumours. Every department has been told to go find savings. If you look at current receipts month-on-month versus predictions its obvious this needs to happen.

      The first one in the current cycle was not removing as promised the extra 500 cap on PDF numbers and keeping it at 10000

      There will be more before next budget.


      This isn't a defence issue, it's an economy issue and there's not many votes in defence[ compared to closing a local hospital ward or reducing the strength of the GardaĆ­ ]


      If you look at the NDP items there will be savage cutbacks in new road programmes both National and local - Victor is our expert on this stuff.
      Last edited by trellheim; 7 June 2008, 14:29.
      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

      Comment


      • #4
        Goldie,

        I believe there are dark days coming for the RDF. The organisation is dying and there are no attempts being made to save it. In fact the opposite is the case. I think it is being killed from above. I reckon they want an integrated reserve and that's all they want. It will be an urban based organisation in the cities and near barracks. The old countrywide organisation is gone. I'm after serving for 12 years now and I've seen the centre in my local town close along with centres in all the nearby towns also.

        The older NCO's are not wanted. They want young 3*'s to fill the integrated ranks and will have assigned PDF NCO's to them.

        RDF NCO's in charge of PDF 3*'s is a problem but the other way is no hassle as to a RDF 3* an NCO is an NCO.

        Taxation of the RDF is hitting the NCO's & officers hardest and the numbers appying for camp is very poor this year as a result of taxation. therer will be loads of younf 3*'s and no NCO's to instruct them in camp this year I'd say. But that will be overcome by assigning PDF NCO's which is covered above.

        Comment


        • #5
          Well when you have RDF officers who are willing to occupy Integrated Reserve NCO appointments, there isn't much hope for the NCOs.

          I agree on the Urbanisation of the Reserve though. Those not near a barracks will loose. Sure at the moment those far away are bussed to barracks for training, but how long more will that be tolerated?Will they continue bringng People from West Cork to Collins Barracks? West Kerry to Sarsfields Barracks? Connemara to Renmore? With diesel prices continuing to increase, there will come a time when the Dept will say "no more, not for 2 hours training". We all know that the transport situation is at best difficult. If you have loads of drivers you can't get the vehicles, when you have the vehicles, you can't get the driver qualified.

          The emphasis will be on overseas. Anything not connected to it will suffer. So yes, non integrated who have either no hope, or no interest in going overseas, when there is a "benign security situation" at home will feel the pinch.


          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

          Comment


          • #6
            e organisation is dying and there are no attempts being made to save it. In fact the opposite is the case
            RDF Advertisement Campaign tender closed a fortnight ago, to air later this year [ hopefully]

            I reckon they want an integrated reserve and that's all they want.
            They do want an integrated reserve, but it has to come from somewhere.

            The older NCO's are not wanted
            oh for ffs come parade with us I need Sgts and Cpls in the non-integrated cohort.

            RDF NCO's in charge of PDF 3*'s is a problem
            Why ?

            If the man says you're in charge then you're in charge.

            As for the tax issue I'm not seeing it from where I'm standing. yes it's a pain though agreed.
            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
              Well when you have RDF officers who are willing to occupy Integrated Reserve NCO appointments, there isn't much hope for the NCOs.
              That should not be allowed !

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                ...........oh for ffs come parade with us I need Sgts and Cpls in the non-integrated cohort.............
                I'm glad you've brought that up. I have 12 years very effective service, 10 as a cpl. can't get a promotion to sgt as there are apparently no vacancies. I have never seen some of the sgts in my unit. I am sick of this situation and have not been turning up lately. Hence no sgts parading and cpls going same way.

                Chicken and egg scenario !

                Where are you based, give me sgt stripes and I'll parade like you wouldn't believe !!!!!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  we're in Cathal Brugha, it says so on the left of all my posts Rathmines Dublin 6.

                  Have you a Standards course done ?


                  As for vacancies, check the AF361. If you're in an Inf Coy there's 7 vacancies for a Sgt. I'd love to see if you have all 7 Sgts vacancies filled.
                  "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                  "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                    we're in Cathal Brugha, it says so on the left of all my posts Rathmines Dublin 6.

                    Have you a Standards course done ?


                    As for vacancies, check the AF361. If you're in an Inf Coy there's 7 vacancies for a Sgt. I'd love to see if you have all 7 Sgts vacancies filled.
                    I'm in Tipp, bit far away

                    No, Haven't had a chance, always wanted for instructor on Pot's courses or recruits every year.

                    I'm in a CAV unit now, was infantry before re-org. even more sgt vacancies than an inf coy. 19 i believe

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I got the same story Bunny. "No vacancies". Or rather vacancies held by the old boys club...

                      I was recently approached by another corps unit who are crying out for Sgts. They have lots of young inexperienced corporals who either:
                      (a) Join the PDF
                      (b) Become officers
                      (c) stop turning up because now they have responsibility.

                      That said, I understand I am holding an appointment in a unit that I applied to transfer out of 3 years ago. Meanwhile those who wish to get promoted cannot, until I vacate my appointment...chicken and egg again.

                      But hey, what's that got to do with the fact there will be huge cutbacks ahead?


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I feel powers that be are happy to let RDF die a death and reckon they wish it had happened years ago

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bunny shooter View Post
                          Are we likely to see a return to the 1 x weeks camp and no paid w/ends and a reduction in equipment etc ?
                          If they reduced our equipment we wouldn't have ANYTHING!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I feel powers that be are happy to let RDF die a death and reckon they wish it had happened years ago
                            Very enlightened thread.

                            Is it only the NCO's who have seen ten or more years service who see whats is happening again.

                            We were around through the lean times and now are seeing the down turn again with the death of our 'Celtic tiger'

                            the RDF is certainly going to suffer becuase of the economic slowdown

                            We may not be frontline troops in the true meaning of the pharase but we are certainly in the front line when it comes to cut backs.

                            As for the vacancies , they are there but its at the discretion of unit commanders to post people non effective but they are slow to do so ass it would mean getting rid of experienced guys and writing them off totally is a difficult choice but these choices will have to made or people holding on for promotion will lose interest and move on.

                            Transfers are very slow again because units are slow to give up their vacancies to people they have no history on..very territorial when it comes to taking on people from other units.

                            But I agree with all that has been said in this thread

                            troubling times ahead.
                            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bunny shooter View Post
                              There are rumours of a cut in the defence budget as a result of the downturn in the economy and a reduction in forecasted tax revenue.

                              Will this affect RDF moreso than PDF ?

                              Are we likely to see a return to the 1 x weeks camp and no paid w/ends and a reduction in equipment etc ?

                              or will we see the RDF being utilised more as they are a cheaper option ?
                              Section 28a of the Lisbon treaty locks us in to becoming part of the EDA (European Defence Authority). as part of this we would be legally obliged to spend 2% of GDP on defence, that would be roughly double what is spent now.

                              That should pay for a few training days!
                              CRIME SCENE INSTIGATOR

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