Defence budget cuts

[flash bang]

vote no

[greyfox]

is that outlined some where in the new R5 ?

[Bravo20]

. Promotion from the rank of Corporal to the rank of Sergeant may be made by the General Officer Commanding the Brigade or Flag Officer Commanding the Naval Service to fill vacancies in Establishments where the the candidate has;
i. passed all the qualifying tests laid down in the relevant training instructions issued by the Director of Defence Force Training
ii. is recommended for promotion by his Commanding Officer
iii. is recommended for promotion by the Officer Commanding the Brigade RDF/ O/C Shore Operations.
iv. and where necessary the agreement of the relevant Corps Director where the proposed promotion is to a vacancy in a corps other than Infantry.
v. Have attended annual training in three of the proceeding five years. Certification as to this requirement will accompany the AF 384.

[trellheim]

Old R5 :

(3) Promotion from the rank of Corporal to the rank of Sergeant may be made by the General Officer Commanding the Command to fill vacancies in Establishments.

Nothing more.

[hptmurphy]

Not true. Nowhere in the regs does it state to the best of my knowledge you need a std course done first. I know of sgt's who have been promoted without it and at least one CQMS and at least one CS

Don't forget me..I never did a standard's course.

I had the choice but it was more beneficial that I held an appointment on a PSO rather than send me on a course.

As I was deemed capable of holding the rank and carrying out the appointment I was promoted.

Just because you have the course doesn't make you the best candidate.

Sergeants holding standards courses within my unit are very much in the minority as they were promoted for their ability to carry out the job in hand rather than spending the time on a course.

The down side to this that you could potentialy end up with corporals with very little appreciation of the actual functions of a sergeant especially it comes to situations that corporals may not be regulary involved in and then the course would prove to be a good asset.

As for guys who transfered and went without appointment, this certainly is not the case as on exercises etc appointments are rotated to give evrybody acahnce to operate in roles they may not be familiar with

[bunny shooter]

Very good point murph.

Having a course done means nothing. IMO a 3* needs a Pots course to give them an introduction on how to be an NCO. And an introduction is all it is. It takes years of experience to make a good NCO of any rank, not courses.

[bagel]

pre reorg there was a lot of promotions in the old unit , none of those promoted had done a standards most were borderline active one cpl had a standards done who was not promoted , as far as im aware the system works the same at the end of the day its the unit commanders decision but most are afraid to go against seniority

and why?
one reason i've come across is that some senior ones joined underage and the unit/sub-unit commanders haven't the balls to address the matter at this late stage;
believe me, that lousy crap happens.

[trellheim]

Seniority is only an issue in some units who refuse to operate on the correct basis.

If you had the Std. Course done and someone had not, and that person was promoted in front of you, then it's a redress straight away.

Second, if a standards course was available and you were refused a place on it [ and you had requested nomination in writing ] then you should investigate further. Note the career courses are never full these days due to fitness scything out a lot of people, so that's not an excuse..

You're strongly recommended to read the case studies in the Defence Forces Ombudsman's report to see how the system works.

[luchi]

Seniority is only an issue in some units who refuse to operate on the correct basis.

If you had the Std. Course done and someone had not, and that person was promoted in front of you, then it's a redress straight away.

Can you clarify. In a unit where Sgt vacancies are rare. if you have a Cpl that has been sucessfully training recruits for the past 15 years and is quite fit but for various reasond did not do the Std crse. And you have a lad that has 2 years as a Cpl and done the Std crse. If a vacancy should arise you must promote the inexperienced guy because he has the course?

Second, if a standards course was available and you were refused a place on it [ and you had requested nomination in writing ] then you should investigate further. Note the career courses are never full these days due to fitness scything out a lot of people, so that's not an excuse..

Is this the same for the officers crse?

[trellheim]

If a vacancy should arise you must promote the inexperienced guy because he has the course?

No. What you MUST do is follow the correct procedure. For example has the inexperienced guy applied for the advertised vacancy ? Has it been posted in R.O's for all to see on the noticeboard ?
If there are two applicants have you given each of them a chance to tell their story and sell themselves ?

Like it or not the Standard Course TS05/05 "The aim of the Standard NCO Course is to train selected corporals in the RDF to the level of professional knowledge and skill required to fill the Sergeants appointments within the RDF" .

Any evaluation MUST give weight to this, usually it's the elephant in the room.

Again

You're strongly recommended to read the case studies in the Defence Forces Ombudsman's report to see how the system works.

As for your last point - you quoted two points of mine

The p/officer course requires a pass in the IT's now, if that's what you wanted to know. In fact an officer career course was the first in the RDF to >require< IT's be passed.

[greyfox]

Can you clarify. In a unit where Sgt vacancies are rare. if you have a Cpl that has been sucessfully training recruits for the past 15 years and is quite fit but for various reasond did not do the Std crse. And you have a lad that has 2 years as a Cpl and done the Std crse. If a vacancy should arise you must promote the inexperienced guy because he has the course?

that is a good point and would lead to alot of apathy on the senior guys part , there are those in the RDF who attended every course under the sun and are still useless .

[trellheim]

If you want a promotion you'll work for it. Yes, there will always be work to be done, but now and again you need to keep an eye on your own career in the DF too.

[Docman]

Why dont they just disband the RDF now, give us all a few shillins as a "thanks for all your service" payment, then reform it but make it clear that anyone who wants to join HAS to pass their IT's annually and HAS to give a minimum commitment.

That'd sort out the messers and the "old boys club"................

Ah, so you have also heard the rumours of what is in the 2010 White paper!

I have been asked to instruct on a std's course with BTC (Southern Bde) and the person asking me knows I have no std's course and am not a sgt. He said "you don't need to worry about small things like that".

Are you sure about that?

BTC South are not involved in this Years Stds Cse.

And have more than enough instructors for the Pot NCOs cse.

[riflemangundy]

Cutting Cost

Anybody know how much the DF spent on fuel,, Iv seena wagon go from Galway to the curragh and then to cork with a letter that had to be signed by a PDF man!!! A ****ing letter!!!

[bunny shooter]

Are you sure about that?

BTC South are not involved in this Years Stds Cse.

And have more than enough instructors for the Pot NCOs cse.

Yes I am.

I heard that al ot of the instructors on Pots course were pulling out at the last minute and I know 2 x cpls who were asked approx 2 weeks ago if they were interested in instructing.