The commitment of Reservists (Intergrated & Non Integrated)?

[Bravo20]

it is the extra committment and discipline that a lot of other people don't like and prefer the idea of getting langers on the last night or sneaking down the field with the half way good looking 2* in the other platoon.

What extra committment? From what I saw of the attendance requirements, it is less than what I would expect from one of my regular paraders.

[Docman]

What extra committment? From what I saw of the attendance requirements, it is less than what I would expect from one of my regular paraders.

The main committment is that the "Volunteer" aspect is completely gone. You sign up and you show up. Don't show up and you face the consequences. There is no case of telling everyone about sunday and hoping that 12 show up. If you have 12 people Integrated, then 12 will show.... or they better be on a flight out of the country.

The other extra committment is being committed to the training. There is no "going along" with the training. There is noone in the Platoon who is barely putting in the time needed to stay on camp. There are no excuses accepted for not giving your full committment. Also, since there is a fitness test, there is a lot more committment required in the fact that you spend 3 or 4 evenings pounding the road.

[DeV]

What extra committment? From what I saw of the attendance requirements, it is less than what I would expect from one of my regular paraders.

Integration (2008 version) is supposed to be in addition to non-integrated training.

There is no case of telling everyone about sunday and hoping that 12 show up. If you have 12 people Integrated, then 12 will show.... or they better be on a flight out of the country.

Why? The most that can happen is you will be RTU'ed & lose the increased grat.

The same "ah if you can't make this weekend next weekend will do" and "sure if you can;t do that job we'll give you a different one" sort of thing

At the same time the DF (both PDF & RDF) have to understand that reservists have other commitments.

[DeV]

Ah, the innocence!

Yes, you get RTUed, and loose your Grat ONLY AFTER the PDF are finished with you.

Why what can they do? You just don't turn up.

According to the Minister all service is voluntary, not employees, no change of status....

[courage-under-fire]

from wat im hearing in my barracks guys is that u'd hav better chance of being a soldier by signing on for integrated for a couple of years as there has been an almost complete stoppage of recruitment in the southern bgde! I kno someone in my unit who has been waiting a year for their applictaion to be accepted to the MP's (PDF)

[apod]

Ever herad of being charged?Oh and yes that can follow you back to your parent unit.So unless you decide you no longer want to be in the Reserve at all and just stop turning up alltogether you are gonna have to pay the piper.However the RTU threat usually has the desired effect.:wink:

[DeV]

Reservists can be ordered to turn up to something when they are not under military law.

By the way, I'm not discouraging people from doing integration or anything, I'm merely stating fact.

[luchi]

And remember the ministers recent dail answer where he said

Reserve Defence Force.

351. Deputy Jimmy Deenihan asked the Minister for Defence if .............................. [15072/08]

Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O'Dea): ........................................ The RDF is a part-time, volunteer organisation. Members are free to determine their own level of participation in Reserve activities and may resign from the Reserve at any time. Their service is provided entirely on a voluntary basis with no compulsion to attend.

...........................

If this is correct and you choose to withdraw your support you can have great fun with redresses for any charge brought against you and accusations of bullying if anyone does anything else.

Unless of course the minister is wrong................

[Bravo20]

God forbid the thought that the minister may be wrong

[The real Jack]

God forbid the thought that the minister may be wrong

Ministers come and go but the Regs will stay the same!

[DeV]

Ministers come and go but the Regs will stay the same!

And the Minister is correct, as I've said reservists can choose not to attend, it may mean they are RTU'ed but that is it and thats from the Act.

[apod]

We will see:wink:
Oh and you have just hit the naill bang smack on the head as to why the PDF distrust the RDF so much.We dont have the option of just not showing up when we feel like it or because something is not going the way we would like.We have to suck it up no matter what.Now put yourself in our place you have a RDF guy watching your back on an operation here or even overseas.Something happens that he says "Fcuk this i dont have to put up with this i am only in the reserve not the real army i only joined for the crack and the camp money".Then he votes with his feet leaving your back exposed and the team short a member.Not a good scenario is it?

Untill people loose this "aw sure its only a hobby attitude" to their service and take a serious look at what they are REALLY willing to commit to then the trust will never come about.

[apod]

In any joint PDF/RDF exercise, the differences in enthusiasm have to be seen to believed.

Whats yor point? RDF may get to do exercises once a year and the rest of the time its routine trg so of course its all exciting and interesting for ye especially those who are first timers at whichever skill is being exercised.We might have done similar exercises three or four times already that year under different guises.Also time away from home doing the likes of portlaoise duty etc.So is it any wonder guys get browned off?

Remember the RDF are there because they want to be, and for no other reason,

Exactly my point.They are only there while it suits em.They can vote with thir feet whenever they feel like it.Unlike us.Now speaking as an instructor with the integrated rdf if someone just decides not to show up after i have put in god knows how many hours of my time,much of it free, into preparing stuff for them,which "in addition " instructors are still are not getting paid for then they better have a damn good reason!

if you think that people are turning up just for camp money these days, you are deluded.

No mate i believe you are deluded.Most young people dont join the RDF to serve their country etc etc.They join for the camp away,the money,the cheap drink in the mess and meeting females on the last night.Those who are really interested will stick around year in year out(i was one of those) but at the end of the day they can still vote with their feet when it suits.

You get more for doing a few hours in Dunnes on minimum wage. The pay for a recruit is €6 a week more than minimum wage for a 40 hour week, and we all know that recruits work a lot longer than a 40 hour week.

I cant comment on that as its being a few years since i did either.

The PDF, on the other hand, are there because they have been detailed to be there.

Made my point for me again.Thanks.

[Ghost]

We will see:wink:
Oh and you have just hit the naill bang smack on the head as to why the PDF distrust the RDF so much.We dont have the option of just not showing up when we feel like it or because something is not going the way we would like.We have to suck it up no matter what.Now put yourself in our place you have a RDF guy watching your back on an operation here or even overseas.Something happens that he says "Fcuk this i dont have to put up with this i am only in the reserve not the real army i only joined for the crack and the camp money".Then he votes with his feet leaving your back exposed and the team short a member.Not a good scenario is it?

Untill people loose this "aw sure its only a hobby attitude" to their service and take a serious look at what they are REALLY willing to commit to then the trust will never come about.

Having been on the PDF side of the PSO ex last year and seeing PDF pte's who just decided that they didnt want to be there anymore, it would seem that the PDF have the option of not showing up either. It is just not as obvious when it is hidden behind LD or ED. It wouldn't have been so bad but there wasnt any particular reason for them to feel hard done by, the ex was easy and I have seen RDF pte's put up with a lot worse.

It's more than a hobby, but it is also hard to define. I consider a hobby as something that is done during free time that you are interested in and that you enjoy doing. At the same time other people wouldn't put up with the crap that RDF people have to put up with as part of there hobbies. Until the PDF loose the "there all just a bunch of sandbags" attitude and realise that there are a lot of RDF personnel who are committed and have a professional attitude then RDF personnel will continue to loose respect for PDF personnel who just dont have a clue.

[DeV]

... "Fcuk this i dont have to put up with this i am only in the reserve not the real army i only joined for the crack and the camp money".Then he votes with his feet leaving your back exposed and the team short a member.Not a good scenario is it?

Untill people loose this "aw sure its only a hobby attitude" to their service and take a serious look at what they are REALLY willing to commit to then the trust will never come about.

The PDF & DOD have to make a commitment to the RDF also!

Understand that the RDF is not a job even thought it is increasingly being treated like it - the RDF will not pay the rent or put food on the table if you lose your full time job for doing RDF work in your employers time or not working weekends because you are away with the RDF.

If volunteers are to be kept they have to be valued, treated with a bit of respect and have a bit of understand that they also have other commitments (I don't mean going on the pi**).

Remember it isn't reservists that have decided this law it is PDF & DOD.

Ah, you yourself have hit another nail on the head.

In any joint PDF/RDF exercise, the differences in enthusiasm have to be seen to believed. Remember the RDF are there because they want to be, and for no other reason, if you think that people are turning up just for camp money these days, you are deluded. You get more for doing a few hours in Dunnes on minimum wage. The pay for a recruit is €6 a week more than minimum wage for a 40 hour week, and we all know that recruits work a lot longer than a 40 hour week.

The PDF, on the other hand, are there because they have been detailed to be there.

What about unpaid field days/weekends?

Loss of pay, possibly loss of job, holidays, promotion, etc

Now speaking as an instructor with the integrated rdf if someone just decides not to show up after i have put in god knows how many hours of my time,much of it free, into preparing stuff for them,which "in addition " instructors are still are not getting paid for then they better have a damn good reason!

And if you don't see them again??

This isn't a personal attack or anything, I'm telling it like it is.

I've been an NCO for 7 years, in that time I've spent considerable time, money & effort on preparing even the most basis of thing. I've never been paid for it (apart from €98 grat which never even came close to the amount spent).

Most young people dont join the RDF to serve their country etc etc.They join for the camp away,the money,the cheap drink in the mess and meeting females on the last night.Those who are really interested will stick around year in year out(i was one of those) but at the end of the day they can still vote with their feet when it suits.

Many join the RDF as they would like to join the PDF / Gardai, and many are successful!