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  • Orderlies

    The last Recruit camp I was on appointed a system of orderlies to take responsibility for various activities on camp, such as cleaning of billets and ablutions and various other admin tasks. This is something I’ve never felt comfortable with, as I feel it sets members of the recruit platoon in positions of authority above each other and disrupts teambuilding. I know its common in some PDF units (it was an ex-PDF Cpl who introduced it to our unit), and obliviously on PNCO and Std NCO Cses, but until now I’ve never seen FCA recruits involved in it. Is this common in other units, and how successful is it? Does it lead to bullying and victimization?
    23
    Good idea
    78.26%
    18
    Bad idea
    21.74%
    5

  • #2
    The system has always worked well, it'd be a remarkably laid back recruti camp that gave even the most spa-headed recruit time to build up allusions of power on the basis of being blamed for his buddies handiwork.
    It doesn't create victimisation as long as its properly rotated i.e. one person one day it just puts a very little bit of responsibilty onto otherwise spoonfed recruits.

    Powertripping is generally due to a recruit being older or just a walter nothing to do with being able to send his buddies to steal a broom from the three star billets.
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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    • #3
      It my experience it has been common policy, as regards giving people illusions of power, well that can be sorted out fairly sharpish.I have to say it is important for recruits on a recruit camp to realise that they do still have certain responsibilities, and if they are working well for each other when they are alloted different "areas of responsibility" it does help with generating a sense of "team" within the section/platoon. Remember they arent all going to be sheep for ever! , one day some of them will reach the glorified heights of shepard!

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      • #4
        I just finished recruit camp in the Glen a week or two ago. We used the Billit Ord system and it worked out. It didnt go to anyones head, but it ment someone was shitting it when it was their day and made sure the jobs were done and people were ready. I think without it we would have had a dirtier billit and some of the younger recruits wouldnt have been up in time etc...
        Maybe, just once, someone will call me "sir"
        without adding, "You're making a scene."

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        • #5
          Orderlies have always been used in the army. Room orderlies rotating on a daily basis has always been the norm, just as the PDF have always had a system whereby one recruit is responsible for each section and he takes the blame when things go wrong. That system is simply an extension of the duty system which extends from there to orderly sergeant for each company (cpl or better) then to the BOS the orderly officer the command duty officer and on up to the general officer ranks. It could be stated simply that the duty title is often a rank above the person doing the duty. By that I mean that the orderly sergeant is often not a senior NCO and the orderly officer is often a senior NCO instead of an officer. I have even seen a Captain doing manual labour with a bunch of Privates simply because of boredom and it was a way of getting a good workout!!

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          • #6
            There used to be a system of camp staffs, whereby people with more time available would volunteer for other unit camps to perform duties such as dining hall, ablutions, guards etc. But this appears to have stopped, except in the case of the E Bde Pots Course where an admin party is usually brought.

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            • #7
              Recruit camp is generally one week long, or one week short depending on your point of view. The programme is usually tight with little time to play around with.

              For a recruit in particular, to miss out on any lesson in order to clean up the dining hall or whatever is in my opinion ludicrous.When the cleaner upper returns he/she has missed out on, say mechanism,and has to be reeducated to the detriment of the section.Something has to give and its usually training.

              I fully understand the necessity of the aforementioned cleaner uppers etc but would suggest as is the case of every succesfully run E Brigade Pots course, that an admin crew are brought along, to do just that ,ie admin,guard,kitchens, enemy whatever.

              Hands off those recruits. It could be an A7.........

              regards etc

              ps look how easy it is to post without smilies......
              Support the Search Function.

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              • #8
                Isnt there a new Brigade Training Company for each Brigade forming up? I would assume that they are going to be providing admin for all courses in future, or am i mistaken?
                You're even dumber than I tell people

                You might have been infected but you never were a bore

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                • #9
                  There was an admin party on my PNCO course and the 2 courses I was on before that (all in Finner) However, Finner is a PDF barracks so there is no need for kitchen duty etc. and a lot of the guard duty is reduced.

                  In the recruit camp I was on a few weeks ago as far as I know all the recruits got to spend their time training, any guard duties and stuff were done by the extra NCO's and some 3 stars who were with the recruits.

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                  • #10
                    The initial posting had nothing to do with barrack duties such as guard or kitchen duties and these should only be done by people who are not engaged in training. The posting simply referred to normal daily tasks such as cleaning the area used by the platoon or company. These tasks are performed outside of the training schedule. In other words the recruit would have to get up a little earlier to clean himself his uniform his bedspace and the sleeping quaters in general. Then the room orderly would inspect the area to ensure that it was done properly. The toilets and washing areas would also have to be cleaned by the same recruits under the direction of the platoon orderly and be ready for inspection immediately after morning parade. It is quite normal for there not to be enough time to complete these tasks and that is the general idea during recruit training. The recruit is not supposed to have any time to himself nor is he supposed to have any privacy. They are supposed to be learning about self-discipline and teamwork.

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                    • #11
                      [QUOTE]Originally posted by Ex-soldier
                      [B]The initial posting had nothing to do with barrack duties such as guard or kitchen duties and these should only be done by people who are not engaged in training.

                      Agreed.

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                      The posting simply referred to normal daily tasks such as cleaning the area used by the platoon or company. These tasks are performed outside of the training schedule.

                      Agreed

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                      In other words the recruit would have to get up a little earlier

                      Disagree / everyone is entitled to sleep ie from 23.59 to 07.00 hrs so earlier should not apply.( people gettting up earlier can and do disturb the sleep of other people thus denying them their right to sleep)

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                      to clean himself his uniform his bedspace and the sleeping quaters in general. Then the room orderly would inspect the area to ensure that it was done properly. The toilets and washing areas would also have to be cleaned by the same recruits under the direction of the platoon orderly and be ready for inspection immediately after morning parade.

                      Agreed.

                      -----------------------------------------------------------------------

                      It is quite normal for there not to be enough time to complete these tasks and that is the general idea during recruit training.

                      Disagree. The general idea during recruit training is to ensure the proficiency of the recruit in various soldiering disciplines.

                      -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                      The recruit is not supposed to have any time to himself nor is he supposed to have any privacy.

                      Strongly disagree.Everyone needs time to themselves to chill and everyone is entitled to a little privacy. All work and no play etc. What purpose is served by denying these two aspects?


                      regards etc
                      Support the Search Function.

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                      • #12
                        Ha Ha Ha!!!Don't mean to sound condescending but Ex-soldier is right on all his points.There is no room for quality time with recruits,especially down in the Glen where the pressure is meant to be applied in order for these people to show what they're made of!!Privacy is a luxury which is not afforded as these people are learning to work as a team.
                        Yes these people are meant to be put under pressure time wise to perform - hence there not being enough hours in a day.Impossible tasks,or semblance of, being the norm!!
                        Yes lights out is at 23.59 & yes Reveille is at 07.00 - so what!If tasks have to be performed for say an inspection at say 07.15 then something has to give!!Or else!!
                        Woe betide any recruit i'd see swanning around with loads of time on his hands & not performing his tasks/duties cos he wants some "quality time"!!The section would be learning Section Battle drill in the river for the rest of the day!!!
                        The crux of the matter here is "Are Section/Platoon orderlies needed?"The answer being yes.You need someone accountable each day to make sure all tasks are completed & on time,& it instills a sense of responsibility in the troops.After all it has been said they won't always be the sheep.So how better else to judge than giving "Responsibility"!!!!!!!!
                        Live long and prosper!

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                        • #13
                          Yes vis a vis billet orderlies, no vis a vis kitchen duties and other general camp duties, where such duties will take the soldier out of training for a significant period of time.

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                          • #14
                            I remember my first few days in the army quite well. We reported on a Thursday and everybody was reasonably pleasant to us. We were issued with the uniforms that wouldn't fit anybody else in the barracks and were told to rise at 07:00hrs. We were off at precisely 16:30hrs. and had the evening free to explore the barracks. They even gave us the week-end off. We arrived back on Monday morning and all hell broke loose. We were blamed for signing for the ill-fitting uniforms. We were told that because the barracks were not up to standard and we hadn't been fit enough we would have to get up at 05:00hrs. from then on so that we would have time for physical training and all our cleaning duties prior to breakfast which would be served at 07:30hrs. Most evenings we would have different tasks assigned that had to be performed after dinner and before lights out. There was never any time for socializing and getting that warm fuzzy feeling unless you count that pain of sore muscles and lack of sleep.

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                            • #15
                              One other point Joshua.....An army recruit is entitled to very few things and I will try to list a few of them here:

                              1: Enough food to keep him alive and rarely enough to sustain his weight on enlistment unless orders are specifically given to increase his weight as is often the case.

                              2: A paycheck which they generally end up using to supplement the meagre diet and to purchase cleaning materials.

                              3: Clothing.

                              Everything else is a privilage which by definition can (and will) be taken away.

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