RDF & Tech Pay

[trellheim]

1. Same way as the PDF - when you do full time duties you get paid for them.

2. The majority of RDF spend far more in unpaid volunteer time than they do under paid time. This ratio is probably due to increase.
Certain training activities which are full-time can be paid, subject to approval. For example a Potential NCO course may be made up of several unpaid weekends, plus a fortnight's paid training.
Most field days etc. are unpaid.

Routine Parade Attendance for most units is unpaid volunteer.

[hedgehog]

1. Same way as the PDF - when you do full time duties you get paid for them.

2. The majority of RDF spend far more in unpaid volunteer time than they do under paid time. This ratio is probably due to increase.
Certain training activities which are full-time can be paid, subject to approval. For example a Potential NCO course may be made up of several unpaid weekends, plus a fortnight's paid training.
Most field days etc. are unpaid.

Routine Parade Attendance for most units is unpaid volunteer.

Not really

with us- those in receipt of tech pay get it weekly etc

do you mean that when your boys are full time dutying they get it for that full time period etc- even if it works out 2 days full time

then is Tech pay caluclated at 2/7 etc etc



and for your point 2 and this is the bit really confused me for the thread going on about the Grat

1- are you or are you not volunteers

2- do you get paid some of the time but not all of the time for volunteering

3- If the volunteering concept incorporate payment then how can it be classed as volunteering

[Truck Driver]

3- If the volunteering concept incorporate payment then how can it be classed as volunteering

This is one of the reasons why RDFRA have being lobbying for access to a C & A scheme
for the RDF for some time now.

[luchi]

do you mean that when your boys are full time dutying they get it for that full time period etc- even if it works out 2 days full time

then is Tech pay caluclated at 2/7 etc etc

Yes

1- are you or are you not volunteers

2- do you get paid some of the time but not all of the time for volunteering

Yes and Yes

3- If the volunteering concept incorporate payment then how can it be classed as volunteering

Really good point.
However when I was volunteering in the Pro-Cathedral Boys Choir we got a few bob at Christmas or if we sang at weddings. THere has always been a paid training element of FCA/RDF commitment. In recent years the DF has tried to increase that commitment and IMHO lock people into a psudo-part-time employee type scenario.

The actual appointment in question you are talking about Dev is
Dvr/Rdo Op X 1 (G1)

:confused::confused:????? Please explain. Sigs Rdo Op gets Tech 1 pay, a tpt Dvr gets tech 1 pay. Are you saying then an Inf Dvr must also be a Rdo Op. you must tell us how they are supposed to be in both seats??????????:confused::confused:

[hedgehog]

voluntary.
(1) Free exercise of will involving an act of choice. (2) Without valuable consideration (qv).

volunteer.
(1) A person who takes under a disposition for which he, or anyone on his behalf, has not given valuable consideration (qv). Equity will not assist a volunteer; consequently an incompleted trust for the benefit of a volunteer will be unenforceable. See Plumptre's Marriage Settlement [1910] 2 Ch 609. See TRUST.

(2) A person who gives his services without any express or implied promise of remuneration. He may be liable in damages if he performs a voluntary act negligently, but not if he fails to perform it at all. See AGENT, GRATUITOUS; EQUITY, MAXIMS OF; NEIGHBOUR PRINCIPLE.

Am I missing something (apart from the obvious)

[luchi]

No I don't see that you are missing anything.

Whats the problem?

[hedgehog]

How come a volunteer is actually looking for renumeration for that which he volunteered for

or

why do you want to be paid for your hobby

[trellheim]

Two types of volunteering here

I view it as "There is no conscription in the State. PDF Soldiers [ and Officers ] are required to parade and do things if so detailed. An RDF Soldier may not be 'required' to do something unless he/she has volunteered their time for it and agreed to do so [ except if there is a callout in force of course ] "

Therefore you are volunteering your time to the state for 3 years if it should so need.

The AF518 perhaps might shed some light.
This must be given to every potential RDF recruit to read and understand prior to attestation.

Para 1
You will engage to serve the Government of Ireland as a member of Óglaigh na hĖireann (Irish Defence Forces) for such term as is agreed on attestation, provided that the said Government should so require your services, with the contingent liability that if, at the expiration of your term of service, a proclamation authorising the calling out of reservists on Permanent Service is in force, you shall continue to serve as a reservist for such further period (not exceeding the period during which the proclamation is in force) as the prescribed military authority directs.

Para 4

When enlisted in hÓglaigh Cúltaca (the Reserve Defence Force) for service in Cúltaca an Airm (Army Reserve)/ Cúltaca na Séirbhíse Cabhlaigh (Naval Service Reserve):
a. you will be liable to be called out on permanent service pursuant to the Defence Act, 1954.
b. you will be liable to be called out at any time to aid the Civil Power in the maintenance or restoration or the public peace should the Minister direct that all or so many reservists as he/she thinks necessary be so called out.
c. you will be required, on a voluntary basis, to attend at local training parades, test mobilisations and periods of training in camp as may be ordered.

[piper_69]

No offence hedgehog but look at the buttons on your No1's.
Are you not a volunteer too?

Should we all hand back our pay and say "No thanks Sir, I'm a volunteer"?

[DeV]

and for your point 2 and this is the bit really confused me for the thread going on about the Grat

1- are you or are you not volunteers

2- do you get paid some of the time but not all of the time for volunteering

3- If the volunteering concept incorporate payment then how can it be classed as volunteering

Depends on who your talk to: Minister says we are volunteers, military authorities seem to want part-time soldiers, with the economic slowdown I think they will be looking for volunteers again!

Some members of the IRB/IRA (as in War of Independance era) were paid! AFAIK since the National Army had Reserves some of the training we have done was paid.

How come a volunteer is actually looking for renumeration for that which he volunteered for

or

why do you want to be paid for your hobby

Put it this way hedgie:

if you worked in a factory as a casual part-time employee and filled a technical role on a production line. The role attracts an extra allowance based on the skills/qualifcations that you must have to do the job. The employer refuses to pay you that allowance to the part-timer because you are a part-timer. You bring a case to a Rights Commissioner of the LRC, I guarantee you would win!

IMHO being a member of the RDF is now a job. I volunteered to join the same way I volunteered to get a full-time job. The difference is one pays the bills the other costs more than I get out of it.

[Goldie fish]

+



Must be worn when entering this thread..

[luchi]

How come a volunteer is actually looking for renumeration for that which he volunteered for

I volunteered be trained and in turn to train othrs for various periods.

I hve been obliged to complete a minimum of 1 week continious training in order to get the Grat payment. For some reason, best kow to others, the MA chooses to pay us for this period instead of increasing the gratuity by the same amount and hence have made us volunteers that can be employed occasionally.

why do you want to be paid for your hobby

"My hobby" as you call it is to teach transport related matters. When employed I am obliged to drive people about, do security and other duties and generally do all the other stuff that you would consider to be your job.

So if your question is valid then it could be turned around.

Why should you be employed by the state to do what we are expected to do as volunteers?

[johnny no stars]

How do RDF get Tech Pay

is it extra onto your yearly grat

or is there another way


I respect all those who volunteer to be part of our volunteer reserve forces

I remember when I was volunteering with a local CHurch group (dont laugh)

I never expected any money- I kind of figured that I was volunteering as such


cancel Stand By all call signs in 3-2-1

Go GO Go

Once upon a time, women were paid less than men for doing the exact same job. Society decided that it wasn't right to pay one person less than another if the same job was being done.

[DeV]

What if the Government decided to replace the PDF with the RDF would be a lot cheaper?

What if the Government could save money by getting "volunteers" to do duties in barracks at weekends etc instead of paying PDF personnel there duty money and allowing them to rest off.

If that was the case how would you feel about it? Less money in your wages because they can get RDF to do it for cheaper?!

[Truck Driver]

What if the Government decided to replace the PDF with the RDF would be a lot cheaper??!

This is the model for the Swiss Army (AFAIR)....

Something like 100,000 strong standing army, 90,000 of whom are Reservists, the
other 10,000 a regular, full time Cadre