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  • apod
    replied
    Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
    Exactly

    the lads are still serving on the border

    therefore they are still entitled to there allowance

    if they no longer serve on the border they are not entitled to the BA (with some provisions)


    and by the way APOD- what would you know about it

    I doubt you ever served there- Office Jockey

    MOD: Attack the post, not the poster!
    First off.As soon as i replied posting a differing opinion to yours i knew i would be the subject of a personal attack.Guess you proved me right.Again. I could counterattack with a few choice words that i feel like saying,but your not worth it.
    The lads are still seving on the border,no one,least of all me is disputing that.However they are no longer performing the duties for which the allowance was introduced.Therefore they shopuld be switched to SDA to take account of that.Christ almighty according to the public accounts committee of the dail there are people serving in Dublin and other places which are no where near the border and they are still receiving it.How is that right?Are you one of em?Is that why you are so up in arms about this? "comrade"

    Oh and BTW. I'm no office jockey and yeah,I did.
    Last edited by apod; 20 November 2008, 19:47.

    Leave a comment:


  • hedgehog
    replied
    Originally posted by kermit
    Do you get a special allowance for serving in Dublin? Why not?
    Yes

    I am the only one in the whole of the DF getting it

    Leave a comment:


  • hedgehog
    replied
    Originally posted by apod View Post
    Just a quick example to throw into the mix.If you are serving in the ARW you recieve ARW allowance.When you revert back to your parent unit the allowance stops as you are no longer performing the duties for which the allowance is paid..

    Exactly

    the lads are still serving on the border

    therefore they are still entitled to there allowance

    if they no longer serve on the border they are not entilted to the BA (with some provisions)


    and by the way APOD- what would you know about it

    I doubt you ever served there- Office Jockey

    MOD: Attack the post, not the poster!
    Last edited by DeV; 20 November 2008, 13:37.

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  • spud
    replied
    when i was getting BA (which wasnt that long ago), i felt as if i was being robbed!!

    if i had been getting duty money i would have made much more for all the duties i was on!! BA was just inflicted on border units to save the army a few quid! the lads up on the border are more than entitled to keep the BA for all the guards/cash ecorts/checkpoints/stand to's they have had to do over the years for 98 euro a week!!

    And just because there hasnt been an actual checkpoint done since 2002, there is still a 24hr checkpoint duty that has to be done 365 days a year!

    Leave a comment:


  • DeV
    replied
    Originally posted by apod View Post
    Just a quick example to throw into the mix.If you are serving in the ARW you recieve ARW allowance.When you revert back to your parent unit the allowance stops as you are no longer performing the duties for which the allowance is paid.The issue with the border allowance is a similar one.The lads recieved border allowance to perform duties that they are now no longer performing.They should no longer be entitled to it. At the time it was introduced it would have cost the dept a hell of a lot more to pay them SDA.The situation has changed so SDA should now be payed for their specific duties instead of this blanket payment for all of them regardless of wheater they do a duty from one end of the month to another.
    That is the situation in reality.The problem arises in that the lads who have been on it for so long now see it as part of tier basic pay,forgetting that it is only an allowance.Much the same situation as the prison officers who were used to allways getting massive overtime for so long.If one of us does a stint in Portlaoise we draw the allowance while we are there doing the duty.It would be ridiculous of us to feel that just because we recieved the allowance for a set duty period that we would now continue to get it all the time.
    There are AC technicians still in Gormo in receipt of allowances. Remind me when did the AC pull out of Gormo.

    Originally posted by REX View Post
    The powers that be saw that when the payment of SDA began, the bills for the border units would be astronomical due to the frequency of patrols, regimental duties, CIT's etc. The answer, they decided, was to pay a flat rate payment on a weekly basis, thereby saving a fortune, while putting the lads on the border in a situation where they were being worked morning, noon and night for a fraction of the proper payment.

    While the frequency of patrols may have dropped, CIT's and regimental duties continue, and the lower ranks who carry out these duties are still being stiffed! It's only the office johnnies who are laughing.
    The amount of duties will be dropped by 2/3 to 1/2 in some units due to barracks closures.



    If you want BA, instead of SDA, look for that transfer now, before they stop giving it too those new to the units on the border, if not shut up and mind your own business!!
    At the mind of the day it is taxpayers money so it is all our business!

    Leave a comment:


  • Connaught Stranger
    replied
    I presume border allowance is being paid out for the same reasons as when I was in receipt of it between 1976 - 1997?

    We got a standard payment for:-

    Camp Guard, Cliff Power Station Guard, Trussmore R.T.E. Rebro Station Guard.

    Explosive Escort Patrol,

    Cash Patrol,*

    Border Patrol* including Weekly Patrol of 7 days which included manning checkpoints over 24 hour periods, and showing the flag along the border patrol, and accompanying Garda Vehicle Checkpoint Patrols, as well as fixed vehicle checkpoints**

    ** Not in purpose built positions, wooden sentry box and sandbag position.

    We received a set amount of money, when a typical week could be as follows:-

    Camp Guard Duty, Resting off, General Duties, Cliff Power Station, Resting off, 7 day Patrol, 5 days Patrol Leave, Guard Duty, Resting off. so on and so forth.

    Depending on which year, and the amount of men in the Battalion, being available for duty, you could and I did often get 3 Guard Duties a week. For a period it got very critical as more guys left and nobody was joining as pay and conditions were better in Civie street.

    Now outside the border area, soldier's were getting a set payment per Guard Duty, which was financially better for them, when you got a one off set payment for Duties under the border allowance system regardless of how many duties were being performed.

    3 X 24 hour Guard Duties in Border = x

    3 X 24 hour Guard Duties in a non border area = X times 3.

    * Some of the inadequacies were re-addressed by the introduction of the sustenance allowance which came in, but I did receive claim forms sent back from Finance stamped Not Granted and no explanation.

    So in someways the Government were making a big saving by using Border Allowance.

    Connaught Stranger.

    Leave a comment:


  • turbocalves
    replied
    Originally posted by hedgehog View Post

    JNS- she is intersted in keeping the money for free 3rd level education-
    funny, i was in the mature students room in maynooth today, and i met a retired PDF Sgt getting free entitlement (ie: goin to college for free) you reckon we take that away from him????

    or do you think 3rd level ed is just posh kids????

    Leave a comment:


  • johnny no stars
    replied
    Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
    As far as I know it

    seems those in favour of removing Border Allowance from Fellow Soldiers

    are

    The Comptroller lad- well he would- thats his job (has he given up his 10% yet)

    Groundhog- I really think he is winding me up- NO real Soldier would advocate removal of

    an Allowance from fellow Soldiers

    JNS- she is intersted in keeping the money for free 3rd level education-

    Did I leave anyone out
    Maybe you should read what people are saying in future. I said I wouldn't like it if free fees disappeared, however, I'd prefer that than old people losing their healthcare or girls not getting a vaccine for CANCER. I mean JESUS, it's a cancer vaccine. I just think it's wrong to take from health and education as the first port of call for cost savings.

    GH, that's where I'd RATHER see the money go, but I was using the extra kit as an example seeing as HH has already taken issue with the thought that money paid out by the DF with no justification could be better used in another department.

    Leave a comment:


  • REX
    replied
    There seems to be an awful lot of ignorance about how border allowance operates, and how it came about.

    The powers that be saw that when the payment of SDA began, the bills for the border units would be astronomical due to the frequency of patrols, regimental duties, CIT's etc. The answer, they decided, was to pay a flat rate payment on a weekly basis, thereby saving a fortune, while putting the lads on the border in a situation where they were being worked morning, noon and night for a fraction of the proper payment.

    While the frequency of patrols may have dropped, CIT's and regimental duties continue, and the lower ranks who carry out these duties are still being stiffed! It's only the office johnnies who are laughing.

    Last year I was in "Hotel" for a joint stint with 4 CAV from Longford and the lads were telling me that when they get their payment, they are required to give back about €900 of it because they had been away from the border for more than 30 days

    While Gerry Rooney said that PDFORRA were in discussions about BA with the military authorities, you will note that this is only as part of Towards 2016. In other words it's because they have to, but I'm sure that they will endeavor to retain the BA for as many as possible, but you may see a situation where junior soldiers may find at advantageous to opt off BA and would be better off on SDA.

    If BA is stopped those who have it already will probably keep it on a "personal to holder" basis unless they opt out, and what about those in Longford? Will they get to keep their allowance as part of the negotiations arising from the barrack closures?

    It's a complex issue and not just as simple as "the IRA are gone lets stop border money"

    As for those who say that the allowance should stop, well jealousy is a terrible thing. YES I said it! There are too many people looking to what others are getting, the Army isn't an easy job and we should be trying to get as much as possible, for as many of us as possible, rather than back biting and giving out.

    If you want BA, instead of SDA, look for that transfer now, before they stop giving it too those new to the units on the border, if not shut up and mind your own business!!

    By the way I'm not in receipt of Border Allowance, nor have I ever been, and I seriously doubt I ever will be, but the lads up there have had it rough enough, for long enough, that they deserve to be left with what is probably only one nights expenses for a TD who will claim for accommodation but still sleep at home (but that's a whole other rant!!)

    My two cents, for what it's worth

    Leave a comment:


  • apod
    replied
    Just a quick example to throw into the mix.If you are serving in the ARW you recieve ARW allowance.When you revert back to your parent unit the allowance stops as you are no longer performing the duties for which the allowance is paid.The issue with the border allowance is a similar one.The lads recieved border allowance to perform duties that they are now no longer performing.They should no longer be entitled to it. At the time it was introduced it would have cost the dept a hell of a lot more to pay them SDA.The situation has changed so SDA should now be payed for their specific duties instead of this blanket payment for all of them regardless of wheater they do a duty from one end of the month to another.
    That is the situation in reality.The problem arises in that the lads who have been on it for so long now see it as part of tier basic pay,forgetting that it is only an allowance.Much the same situation as the prison officers who were used to allways getting massive overtime for so long.If one of us does a stint in Portlaoise we draw the allowance while we are there doing the duty.It would be ridiculous of us to feel that just because we recieved the allowance for a set duty period that we would now continue to get it all the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joshua
    replied
    Value For Money

    I read HERE recently that in 1996, over 26,000 checkpoints ,patrols and searches were carried out along the border. There have been none since 2002.

    Paying people for something they no longer do would not be tolerated in the private sector. Why should it be tolerated in the DF?

    Logically (if you are six), if BA is given to soldiers in border areas for doing nothing related to BA, why not give it to the soldiers in Rathmines or indeed Clonmel or Cork or wherever, after all they don't do border duties either. HERE

    Leave a comment:


  • DeV
    replied
    Will they now qualify for SDA instead?

    Leave a comment:


  • luchi
    replied
    Yes
    there is your first hate SF who find the DF interfer with some of their friends activities - well they want to stop more than boarder allowance.

    Mr J. Public that also sides with the SF idea that the army shoud be cut.
    There are other groups that subscribe to this idea but for different reasons.

    One quesstion though.
    you say that if you get BA you don't get SDA.
    Would there not be more secutity duties on the boarder than in somewhere like Clonmel and so the C&AG would only save a fraction of the BA anyway?

    Leave a comment:


  • hedgehog
    replied
    Originally posted by golden rivet View Post
    hold on to what you have that is a sensible motto and remember the soldier owes the government nothing as the days when he stood at checkpoints may be gone, so unless you want the defence forces cut down smaller.get something in return if you give something away what is pdforra saying about this or are they fighting a case... foot and mouth can return..
    As far as I know it

    seems those in favour of removing Border Allowance from Fellow Soldiers

    are

    The Comptroller lad- well he would- thats his job (has he given up his 10% yet)

    Groundhog- I really think he is winding me up- NO real Soldier would advocate removal of

    an Allowance from fellow Soldiers

    JNS- she is intersted in keeping the money for free 3rd level education-

    Did I leave anyone out

    Leave a comment:


  • Joshua
    replied
    PDFORRA News






    Comptroller and Auditor General’s Observations on Border Allowance

    The Comptroller and Auditor General’s Report for 2007 has commented on the payment of Border Allowance to members of the Defence Forces. The report points out that the auditor “was concerned that this allowance continues to be paid while justification for its introduction has long ceased”.
    In response to media queries PDFORRA has pointed out that a review of Border Allowance is taking place under the Towards 2016 modernisation agenda and this has been considering the issues raised by the Comptroller and Auditor General. PDFORRA General Secretary, Gerry Rooney said “The report questions the continued payment of Border Allowance but does not take account of the fact that personnel in receipt of it cannot claim substantial Security Duty Allowance payments or that additional work is being carried because of the security situation on the border”.
    Border Allowance was introduced in 1972 in response to the special arrangements made to cope with the security situation in border areas.




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