Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Border Allowance

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
    colonel decker
    Banned User

  • colonel decker
    replied
    Sorry Self-Serving.

    [MOD: FYI - On the bottom rhs of each post there is an EDIT icon.]

    Leave a comment:

  • colonel decker
    Banned User

  • colonel decker
    replied
    Why should they pay for the seld serving excesses of others

    Leave a comment:


  • REX
    replied
    Originally posted by colonel decker View Post
    Civil Servants are humans too indeed a lot are in the RDF as they get small special leave concessions,
    Have you not watched the news? All Civil and Public Servants are money grabbing demons, who laugh at the financial worries of others, as we sit on our piles of gold bars!!

    Leave a comment:

  • colonel decker
    Banned User

  • colonel decker
    replied
    Civil Servants are humans too indeed a lot are in the RDF as they get small special leave concessions,

    Leave a comment:


  • lefty
    replied
    I agree holeheartedly with the hog, border allowance should be paid to soldiers on the border because personnel on the border bloody well deserve it. And yes to answer some of the posters, with the 4 border posts closing in january sda would work out better for the money savers in government but right up until that day and including as i write this now it works out much better for the gov to pay border allowance because even with the cessation of hostilities in the north soldiers, NCOs and officers on the border still do more duties than any of their compatriots while at the same time being some of the best soldiers in the country. FACT

    I would have thought someone would have mentioned it with the current pork problem but id like to see how much would be payed to troops on the border if there was another outbreak of Foot and Mouth or Avian Flu and every border crossing needed to have a soldier on it again with border pay gone.

    What the hog said is probably how its going to go down, id say it is going to go for people joining a border unit after the barracks' close but everyone on it currently should stay on it as long as they are serving on the border. If money really needs to be saved then they can look at taking some of the lads in the curragh and the don who are miles away from the border off it.

    Leave a comment:


  • hedgehog
    replied
    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    I would, but its outside the statute of limitations.

    It could be though, something as simple as the Garda finance code changing somewhere between 1992 and 1996.

    If as you say my "mates" were getting a border allowance, why is it that each and every one of them who wasn't from the B.M.W region done everything humanly possible to get away from the border, and into someplace like Store st, or Roxboro? Do you seriously think they would turn down financial reward?


    I really havent a clue

    I was simply looking up to see what the historical significane of the BA was when

    lo and behold I see that the Gardai also get a Border Allowance

    I assume that Gardai serving there still get it

    As I said I havent a clue what motivates a Garda because I never was one


    and as for the Dail record

    well if you say that the Dail record isnt true

    then I will beleive you -

    Leave a comment:

  • Goldie fish
    Tim Horgan

  • Goldie fish
    replied
    I would, but its outside the statute of limitations.

    It could be though, something as simple as the Garda finance code changing somewhere between 1992 and 1996.

    If as you say my "mates" were getting a border allowance, why is it that each and every one of them who wasn't from the B.M.W region done everything humanly possible to get away from the border, and into someplace like Store st, or Roxboro? Do you seriously think they would turn down financial reward?

    Leave a comment:


  • hedgehog
    replied
    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    I think the deputy may not have had his facts in order.

    REX: I was answering Hedgehogs question.


    As you know the Minister wouldnt have a dogs notion and all his information

    is gleamed form the civil servants

    so are you saying

    that the civil service fed the minister wrong information

    or your mates were actually getting a border allowance and you didnt know about it.

    If your mates fed wrong info to the minister and that wrong info is on the Dail record

    surely as a Civil Servant in a highly efficent Department

    you have a duty to atttempt to recifty and amend the record

    Leave a comment:

  • Goldie fish
    Tim Horgan

  • Goldie fish
    replied
    I think the deputy may not have had his facts in order.

    REX: I was answering Hedgehogs question.

    Leave a comment:


  • hedgehog
    replied
    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    In 1996, gardai stationed in border areas got paid nothing extra to their colleagues in non border areas.
    I got extra because I was on temporary transfer, but this would also have applied had I been posted to Waterford, Shannon, or Mayo, away from my normal district.

    But if the army are doing duties where SDA would be paid, they should be getting it, regardless of their location.

    (unless its the reserve of course. We are a voluntary organisation)
    I would get back on to your pay clerk

    you may be due a few bob

    Dáil Éireann - Volume 419 - 19 May, 1992

    Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - PDFORRA Conference.

    Mr. Belton Mr. Belton

    3. Mr. Belton asked the Minister for Defence if he will now consider paying to soldiers a similar Border duty allowance to that paid to gardaí on Border duty; whether, following his attendance at the PDFORRA conference, he is convinced of the inequality that exists relating to this matter; and when he expects to be in a position to make a constructive proposal on this matter.

    Mr. Nealon Mr. Nealon

    18. Mr. Nealon asked the Minister for Defence if he attended the PDFORRA Conference in Galway last week; and the plans he has to take constructive action on the areas of concern discussed.

    Mr. Howlin Mr. Howlin

    1779

    43. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Defence if, taking into account the [1779] serious statements made by PDFORRA regarding pay and conditions in the Defence Forces, he will outline the steps he proposes to take to remedy this; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

    Mr. Gilmore Mr. Gilmore

    59. Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline his response to calls for an end to discrimination and the introduction of new pay structures for the Defence Forces made at the PDFORRA conference; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

    Mr. Sheehan Mr. Sheehan

    62. Mr. Sheehan asked the Minister for Defence if he attended the PDFORRA conference in Galway last week; and the plans he has to take constructive action on the areas of concern discussed.

    Minister of State at the Department of Defence (Mr. Dempsey) Minister of State at the Department of Defence (Mr. Dempsey)

    Minister of State at the Department of Defence (Mr. Dempsey): I propose to take Questions Nos. 3, 18, 43, 59 and 62 together. At the invitation of the national executive of the association I attended the first PDFORRA annual delegate conference in Galway on 13 May 1992 where I addressed the delegates from the four commands, the Air Corps and the Naval Service.

    As regards pay and other conditions of service the position is that these matters were the subject of an independent review by the Gleeson Commission. The commission received submissions from teams representative of privates, non-commissioned officers and officers and undertook a thorough examination of all the issues involved. Their findings represented an objective assessment by an independent body. The implementation of the financial aspects of the commission's recommendations — pay, allowances and so on — was approved immediately by the Government following the issue of the report.

    1780

    In addition members of the Permanent Defence Forces now, for the first time, have representative structures, through which to represent their members in regard to conditions of service. A commitment has also been given to establish a scheme of conciliation and arbitration. [1780] The scheme will provide that where there is no agreement at the conciliation level and the matter is arbitrable it may be referred to an independent and unbiased arbitrator.

    It is open to the associations to pursue the various matters which come within their scope of representation by formulating proposals and presenting them through the newly-established machinery. Any such proposals will be carefully and fully examined by my Department.

    Mr. Belton Mr. Belton

    Leave a comment:


  • REX
    replied
    Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
    In 1996, gardai stationed in border areas got paid nothing extra to their colleagues in non border areas.
    I got extra because I was on temporary transfer, but this would also have applied had I been posted to Waterford, Shannon, or Mayo, away from my normal district.

    But if the army are doing duties where SDA would be paid, they should be getting it, regardless of their location.

    (unless its the reserve of course. We are a voluntary organisation)
    In the mid 90's while doing border duties, ( incidentally, this was because the brits were taking down border posts) all PDF personnel doing these extra border duties were put on Border Allowance so that the costs were lower than paying SDA. I know I said in a previous post that I had never received BA but while I was wrong, it appears this was just because my mind had blotted out the horror of spending 14 days 24hrs on, 24hrs off.

    But seriously, after 2 weeks I didn't know which way was up, and, while I know this is an exceptional incidence of duties, others on the border still do an inordinate number of duties.

    But to finally get to my point, (yes, I did have one) the Gardai we were on the border in support of were in receipt of massive allowances which were in the order of £10K for a two month stint where you got overtime after 8 hours of a shift, were properly fed and didn't have to live in a hovel. Those stationed on the border also benefited with O/T etc never mind the allowances that are routinely paid to all Gardai regardless of posting, so I don't know what your connection to the Gardai is G/F but I feel that introducing G/S pay into this argument is a bit of a Red Herring

    Leave a comment:

  • Goldie fish
    Tim Horgan

  • Goldie fish
    replied
    In 1996, gardai stationed in border areas got paid nothing extra to their colleagues in non border areas.
    I got extra because I was on temporary transfer, but this would also have applied had I been posted to Waterford, Shannon, or Mayo, away from my normal district.

    But if the army are doing duties where SDA would be paid, they should be getting it, regardless of their location.

    (unless its the reserve of course. We are a voluntary organisation)
    Goldie fish
    Tim Horgan
    Last edited by Goldie fish; 7 December 2008, 14:53.

    Leave a comment:


  • hedgehog
    replied
    Eddie
    I dont think they can just remove an alowance like that

    what they will do is,

    make a declaration that NO more BA will be paid to members joining a Border Unit after a certain date

    the BA will then just die out.

    I personally have NO problem with that approach

    Leave a comment:

  • Eddie Dillon
    Nijmegen Neanderthal

  • Eddie Dillon
    replied
    One of the reasons it is still maintained is that it would probably work out more expensive in terms of SDA if they had to pay out that to the troops instead of BA given the amount of posts on the border. With the closure of 4 in the new year this will change so expect to see the BA withdrawn only then and SA restored.

    Leave a comment:


  • hedgehog
    replied
    As for the Border Allowance in general

    This is the PDFORRA stance on the matter and quiet right as well

    Comptroller and Auditor General’s Observations on Border Allowance
    The Comptroller and Auditor General’s Report for 2007 has commented on the payment of Border Allowance to members of the Defence Forces. The report points out that the auditor “was concerned that this allowance continues to be paid while justification for its introduction has long ceased”.

    In response to media queries PDFORRA has pointed out that a review of Border Allowance is taking place under the Towards 2016 modernisation agenda and this has been considering the issues raised by the Comptroller and Auditor General. PDFORRA General Secretary, Gerry Rooney said “The report questions the continued payment of Border Allowance but does not take account of the fact that personnel in receipt of it cannot claim substantial Security Duty Allowance payments or that additional work is being carried because of the security situation on the border”.

    Border Allowance was introduced in 1972 in response to the special arrangements made to cope with the security situation in border areas.

    and dont forget that very famous Gleeson report in the early 90's which gaveth and tooketh from the

    Defence Forces-


    Dáil Éireann - Volume 419 - 19 May, 1992

    Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - PDFORRA Conference.

    Mr. Belton Mr. Belton

    3. Mr. Belton asked the Minister for Defence if he will now consider paying to soldiers a similar Border duty allowance to that paid to gardaí on Border duty; whether, following his attendance at the PDFORRA conference, he is convinced of the inequality that exists relating to this matter; and when he expects to be in a position to make a constructive proposal on this matter.

    Mr. Nealon Mr. Nealon

    18. Mr. Nealon asked the Minister for Defence if he attended the PDFORRA Conference in Galway last week; and the plans he has to take constructive action on the areas of concern discussed.

    Mr. Howlin Mr. Howlin

    1779

    43. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Defence if, taking into account the [1779] serious statements made by PDFORRA regarding pay and conditions in the Defence Forces, he will outline the steps he proposes to take to remedy this; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

    Mr. Gilmore Mr. Gilmore

    59. Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline his response to calls for an end to discrimination and the introduction of new pay structures for the Defence Forces made at the PDFORRA conference; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

    Mr. Sheehan Mr. Sheehan

    62. Mr. Sheehan asked the Minister for Defence if he attended the PDFORRA conference in Galway last week; and the plans he has to take constructive action on the areas of concern discussed.

    Minister of State at the Department of Defence (Mr. Dempsey) Minister of State at the Department of Defence (Mr. Dempsey)

    Minister of State at the Department of Defence (Mr. Dempsey): I propose to take Questions Nos. 3, 18, 43, 59 and 62 together. At the invitation of the national executive of the association I attended the first PDFORRA annual delegate conference in Galway on 13 May 1992 where I addressed the delegates from the four commands, the Air Corps and the Naval Service.

    As regards pay and other conditions of service the position is that these matters were the subject of an independent review by the Gleeson Commission. The commission received submissions from teams representative of privates, non-commissioned officers and officers and undertook a thorough examination of all the issues involved. Their findings represented an objective assessment by an independent body. The implementation of the financial aspects of the commission's recommendations — pay, allowances and so on — was approved immediately by the Government following the issue of the report.
    Gleeson examined the Border Allowance and the Department were only to happy retaining it

    in fact prior to Gleeson examining it they raised it 77%

    The authorities saw it as a cost saving exercise

    and wheras that cost saving exercise may now seem to be a bad choice

    its a case of double standards, the Dept cannot be allowed have there cake and getting the satisfaction of eating it as well

    I know there are lads on here who never served a day of there life on the border, and I know there are lads who did the occasional weekend duty

    but there are lads who did day on day off for years and years- people will tell you about going on selection course to simply get a break.

    they deserve what they got- and now the dept cannot turn around and say

    lets change the rules because it suits us.

    On behalf of my colleagues up there- I am prepared to say

    lets get rid of Border Allowance and pay SDA and normal sub to the Border troops

    but lets get rid of it from 1972 and calculate the shortfall between the 2

    do you really think the dept want to change it.
    Last edited by hedgehog; 7 December 2008, 12:14.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X