Leaders and Managers

[FougaM]

[Mod: Split from Do PDF hate RDF?]

Officers and NCOs are leaders. Just because you have a degree doesn't mean you're capable of leading people (though in certain professional degrees, you'd want to be able to to have any chance of getting a job anywhere). Tech pay is for people with skills that merit extra pay, promotion is for people who are capable of leadership.

So are you saying that Officers and NCOs are the only leaders in the country? I happen to know quite a few successful businessmen and women who can be considered leaders without any military training! So stop this stupidity about leadership, we all know our so called leaders always refer decisions upwards!

By the way what kind of tests are used to evaluate leadership? I know plenty of NCOs and Officers who dont inspire any confidence at all. They somehow regard themselves as leaders because their orders are obeyed. I do what I am told because I am paid to. Most of the time in my job as a technician, I am providing the leadership and decision making. Even though I am the junior person, my seniors have no idea of the job they are supervising, they have no qualifications in that field. Their promotion was based on ticking the right boxes and running around digging holes in the curragh.

A leader is someone who can convince you to do something that you dont want to do!

[johnny no stars]

Having a qualification doesn't make you any good at leadership. Being a good leader does. In the eyes of those that count, the people that get promoted to leadership positions tick the correct boxes (the ones that demonstrate leadership ability). One of those IS the ability to learn independently, however, that is only one thing, not everything.

FougaM, there are people in my class that I wouldn't trust to lead me across a country road without being knocked down but they're very bright students and I'm fairly sure they'll get decent degrees. Doesn't make them leaders though.

[Docman]

So are you saying that Officers and NCOs are the only leaders in the country? I happen to know quite a few successful businessmen and women who can be considered leaders without any military training!

Not getting involved in the argument. Just commenting that there is a BIG difference between Leaders & Managers. 99% of business & finance people in Ireland are managers who try to make out that leadership & management are the same thing. Hence the country is screwed when a real leadership test comes along. I worked in Finance for years. It used to piss me off when so called leadership gurus would talk about the two as if they were the same thing.

I would disagree with you when you say there are quite a few. Leadership & capitalism don't mix.

[Thorpe]

My job title is Team Leader, but really Im a manager, huge difference. I manager a shift I certainly dont lead them.

[fiannoglach]

"Just commenting that there is a BIG difference between Leaders & Managers. 99% of leaders in the DF are managers who try to make out that they are leaders. Hence the DF is screwed when a real leadership test comes along."

There..... I fixed it for you.

[FougaM]

"Just commenting that there is a BIG difference between Leaders & Managers. 99% of leaders in the DF are managers who try to make out that they are leaders. Hence the DF is screwed when a real leadership test comes along."

There..... I fixed it for you.

Exactly!