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The Future of the Army Reserve - Discuss

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  • 14 days ago

    276. Deputy Brian O’Shea Information Zoom asked the Minister for Defence Information Zoom if the embargo introduced on promotions in the Defence Forces from 27 March 2009 applies to promotions which had advanced to the final medical stages; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14763/09]

    Minister for Defence (Deputy Willie O’Dea): Information Zoom The implications and implementation of the recent Government Decision on savings measures on public service numbers are currently under consideration in my Department.

    While the restriction on recruitment, promotion and payment of allowances for the performance of duties of a higher grade applies to the Defence Forces across the board, questions have arisen in relation to a number of issues and particular cases, including the impact on promotion competitions which had advanced to the final medical stages. Officials from my Department and the Military authorities are working together to clarify all the issues arising. Meetings are also taking place with the Representative Associations (PDFORRA and RACO) in an effort to establish the full range of issues requiring clarification.
    source


    RDFRA don't get a look in eh ?
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by trellheim View Post

      RDFRA don't get a look in eh ?
      thats because they beleive the RDFRA and the reserve WILL do ad it told and nothing else
      Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
        PRESS RELEASE - Moratorium on Promotions and Recruitment.

        The Government has announced a moratorium on promotions and recruitment to the Public Service, including the Defence Forces, with effect from 27th March 2009. Despite the official Department of Finance press release referring to the Permanent Defence Force only, the Department of Defence has interpreted the instruction as applying to the Reserve Defence Force. This means that no RDF post, however arising, may be filled by recruitment, promotion, or by the payment of an allowance for the performance of duties at a higher rank. Any exceptions to this principle will require the prior sanction of the Minister for Finance.

        This instruction supersedes the previous instruction limiting recruitment to the RDF up to the effective strength as at 31 January 2009.

        RDFRA is seeking clarification of the following matters affected by the Government decision:

        That potential recruits that have already started the lengthy enlistment process and have taken part in pre-induction training will continue to have their applications processed and be enlisted in due course.
        That advancement of recruits and 2 star privates to 2 star and 3 star privates respectively will continue as it is advancement rather than promotion.
        Promotion competitions that have been advertised will be completed and the successful candidates be promoted.

        RDFRA is opposed to the operation of the moratorium in the Defence Forces as given the voluntary nature of the RDF, the negative impact this action will have on the morale and operational effectiveness of the organisation will by far exceed any financial savings gained.

        Comment


        • Interestingly, or not as is your point of view, our unit has no CS. We had 2 but one retired and one became BSM.
          I was told at the weekend by an officer, above the rank of captain, that our CQ will be given the CS, A certain Sargent will be given the CQ and a certain Cpl will be given the Sgt all with out pay. Since we don't usually get pay there is not much of a loss but alledgedly this is a done deal. And any attempt by an existing CS / CQ or Sgt to transfer in will be resisted.

          Funnily neither the sgt nor the cpl meet the camp attendance requirements as per R5 but that does not appear to be an obsticle.
          Without supplies no army is brave.

          —Frederick the Great,

          Instructions to his Generals, 1747

          Comment


          • Every other RDF NCO (apart from BSMs & BQMSs or equivalent) therefore has grounds for redress.

            Having said that they aren't allowed advertise vacancies or run competitions or hold interview boards so....??

            ---------
            According to R5, the only time you can have an acting rank is on FTT, it is often done however outside of this however.

            Comment


            • You only have grounds for redress if you apply and are turned down.
              Since the posts are not allowed to be advertised then you cannot apply thus have no grounds for redress!!!!!!!!!!!

              The rule about acting only on FTT seems to be open to interpretation.
              We had an Acting Sgt for about 2 years and what was said that the rules say that you cannot be acting in a rank without the sanction of the pay for that rank. Since you are not being paid when not on FTT then you can have anyone acting as long as there is a post vacant. In this case there was a vacancy blocked by an non-effective Sgt.
              Without supplies no army is brave.

              —Frederick the Great,

              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

              Comment


              • The rule is not open to interpretation your unit just chose to ignore it. Of course the rule was put in place to deal with a PDF problem and no consideration was given to the needs of the RDF where a substantial amount of the time someone is in the rank is unpaid.

                I expect to see a lot of units ignoring the acting unpaid rule as needs must

                Comment


                • Consider. If someone takes on a rank, that taking on must be legal, otherwise chaos.

                  Therefore someone must be appointed to a rank in a legal fashion.

                  In order to do so, you must follow Admin Instr R5 Promotions.

                  This says no "acting" unless during FTT, and the acting is paid. There is no provision otherwise.

                  Lastly, I do believe non-effectives do not block vacancies. [ current embargos aside] (R5 para 49 (3) ]
                  "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                  "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                    Lastly, I do believe non-effectives do not block vacancies. [ current embargos aside] (R5 para 49 (3) ]
                    If you look at the monthly strength return or the recommendation for promotion form, total strength = effective + non-effective strength.

                    Section 18 says there must be a vacancy on establishment, personnel can't hold supernumerary appointments (the only exception being officers on fixed period promotions, and they then block any vanancies in that rank).

                    Comment


                    • just fill in the AF384 first and get the man promoted. If filling a vacancy is a problem then just shift the other vacancies around within the unit.

                      If this becomes a real issue just fill the vacancy and request demotion of the holder under R5AI Para 32(5)

                      For example we've had 3 [ or 2 ] SNCO vacancies for some time now
                      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                      Comment


                      • There are at least 3. 2 of those in 1 coy.

                        2 of those were at interview stage (there was only 1 application for each) and these will not now be filled.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          There are at least 3. 2 of those in 1 coy.

                          2 of those were at interview stage (there was only 1 application for each) and these will not now be filled.
                          Why? I thought promotions already advertised and selection process under way were being allowed?

                          B20 in the past maybe they did ignore it but it appears that the current situation is being sanctioned from above.
                          Without supplies no army is brave.

                          —Frederick the Great,

                          Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by luchi View Post
                            Why? I thought promotions already advertised and selection process under way were being allowed?
                            Nothing is being allowed!

                            Say the letter regarding PDF last week. Even where promotion boards have sat and made a recommendation and a promotion is waiting to be signed by DCOS!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by luchi View Post
                              Why? I thought promotions already advertised and selection process under way were being allowed?

                              B20 in the past maybe they did ignore it but it appears that the current situation is being sanctioned from above.
                              As Bravo and Trellheim said, it is in black and white.

                              No Acting Rank unless during FTT. And there is even a form for the purpose of
                              the temporary promotion, which also details the date at which the person
                              reverts back to their substantive rank. The form is in Admin Instr R5
                              "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                              Comment


                              • It is being approved on an nod and a wink basis. That being said I am not opposed to acting promotions in times other than on full time training.

                                The acting unpaid rank was forbidden in order to remove the abuse of the procedure in the PDF years ago whereby people were put into unpaid acting ranks for significant periods of time. The regulation was changed but as usual nobody looked into the impact that change would have on the reserve.

                                For example, Coy B is short a Sgt for 6 months, Cpl A is the most suitable candidate to fill the role and is filling the role. The regulations (prior to the embargo) allow for Cpl A to be promoted to acting Sgt when on annual training but does not allow for the Cpl to be acting Sgt during normal parades and field days.

                                I believe the regulations should be changed to allow for acting ranks for a specified period of time and if full time training occurs during that period then he is acting paid.

                                Comment

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