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  • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post

    My maths aren't off but I may not have provided full detail. I'm basing two hours on how the UK reserves operate. They assume a day's pay (FOR RESERVES!) is eight hours so a 'drill night' is a quarter days pay so two hours. We all know that the PDF complete far more hours and there are working time considerations which are well discussed on other threads.

    If decision making on incentivising the reserve requires ensuring all pay decisions are direclty aligned to the PDF, nothing will ever change. Reserve and Permananent service aren't comparable. I highly doubt the DoD would ever agree that a reservist is paid in 24 hour blocks of a days pay for other obvious and far larger work place relations reasons anyway! Also, 6 EUR (before tax) isn't much of an incentive to get people up and productive of a week night.

    DeV , you're a long standing member of the RDF and on here. Putting you on the spot but do you think RDF should be paid for parade nights and ALL productive training days?
    They should all be directly aligned to PDF, with changes for part time/ voluntary work and if the service is not comparable what's the point. The last time you did a duty in barracks was there different orders when mounting you and the fulltime army pte next to you. Or when you where at sea, if you were, was there different ways of steering the ship or the dinghies.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by California Tanker View Post

      Undoubtedly. Frankly, there would be a drop-off in all ranks, but even more the lower ones, especially those like in my unit where we have to take time off work and pay a fair bit in gas to get to drill.

      We generally will accept roughly coming out even (especially with retirement benefits after 20 years) for a short while if the unit happens to require it at the time, but when we get to the point of losing money routinely, people will leave, especially if they've already earned their VA loan, GI bill, etc.
      Is the pension substantial? I'm guess if you've a few long periods of training and an overseas tour or two it adds up. A few grand a year eventually?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post

        They should all be directly aligned to PDF, with changes for part time/ voluntary work and if the service is not comparable what's the point. The last time you did a duty in barracks was there different orders when mounting you and the fulltime army pte next to you. Or when you where at sea, if you were, was there different ways of steering the ship or the dinghies.
        Everything should be exactly the same of course. Reserve pay does require an incentive though. You could have made the same argument about the 'grat' that was previously received.

        Other militaries which have a far more successful time generating a functioning reserve and integrating it into their structures do treat reservists as being different in at least how they interact with service. They may not have to live it 24/7 which as we all know requires a great deal of committment and sacrifice but they do have to balance that with a full time civilian career.

        Other militaries are being pragmatic and are doing what works. During the height of covid restrictions, many British reserve units paid reservists a quarter days pay to turn up for online drill nights once a week. They also paid another quarter days pay for two hours of prescribed exercise measured on Strava as unit PT. Obviously not directly comparable to our own situation but they were doing what worked and kept people involved and units functioning.

        I'm not pulling this stuff out of thin air. I've researched how other reserves keep people engaged and interested and it does require incentivisation.

        Would you be against the grat if it returned
        batterysgt ?
        Auldsod
        Sergeant Major
        Last edited by Auldsod; 8 April 2022, 08:48.

        Comment


        • The grat was a great retainer and i enjoyed getting it, it helped with some costs (mainly bar bill) and it should be brought back. But pay must be the same as PDF.
          RDF were used during covid 19 as drivers and it worked well. But the British are different as is most other reserve forces.
          more meaning full involvement on Exercises, feeling valued, modular training etc would go a long way an very little cost. I to have research the subject, I have been PDF and know what rdf are viewed and alot of dead weight needs to be cut, the tea drinkers need to go. I have often heard people say we should be like the CIv Def, they get their uniform, cars etc and I agree to a certain point but they are overseen by fulltime staff and their training is centralised.

          Comment


          • what is left ? there are fk-all tea drinkers left because its all hard work now

            Restore the Grat as per the commission report. With fuel costs the way they are I cant force any man to parade and the Govt are leaving themselves open to expense claims

            there is all the modular training needed can be set up as required. We ran a bucketload of stuff online during the pandemic. Its down to will power to get stuff done. There are very few barriers left that are not the same ones the PDF face.
            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
              what is left ? there are fk-all tea drinkers left because its all hard work now

              Restore the Grat as per the commission report. With fuel costs the way they are I cant force any man to parade and the Govt are leaving themselves open to expense claims

              there is all the modular training needed can be set up as required. We ran a bucketload of stuff online during the pandemic. Its down to will power to get stuff done. There are very few barriers left that are not the same ones the PDF face.
              The grat is definitely going to be reinstated whatever degree the commission findings are actioned. It's a no brainer.

              The grat will also draw a line in the sand and show who are the members really contributing to their unit regardless of time in rank. I'd argue that the Corporal who is meeting his KPIs and earning the grat is more valuable to the unit than the Captain who is failing to do so. Now I know there would be exceptions to this but I'm talking in general terms across a wide cross section of personnel.

              If we even got the grat and training calendars both modular or not that were set in stone (with reasonable exceptions) six months before the course is run; the RDF would be in a far better place. Nothing else. Just those.

              There is always a focus on recruitment to solve the ails of the reserve. Get young blood in etc..... but we really need a good organisation and incentives in place to retain new joiners.

              Nothing is more disheartening for a private trying their best to make the most of their service despite the challenges than a Sergeant appearing after being missing for six months to preach negativity and how things were better 25 years ago before disappearing back into the mists.
              Auldsod
              Sergeant Major
              Last edited by Auldsod; 8 April 2022, 15:20.

              Comment


              • I know the TA equivalent (the Bounty) was a great incentive to turn up for weekends in Feb and March. One would see almost 100% attendance those months as everyone was getting their days in before April, regardless of weather.
                'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                Comment


                • The grat is definitely going to be reinstated whatever degree the commission findings are actioned. It's a no brainer.
                  its been a no brainer since it was cut.

                  not sure what the prob is with a training calendar complaint thats your own unit , Our work programme is literally a mile out the door and its all in line with the job description
                  "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                  "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post

                    The grat is definitely going to be reinstated whatever degree the commission findings are actioned. It's a no brainer.

                    The grat will also draw a line in the sand and show who are the members really contributing to their unit regardless of time in rank. I'd argue that the Corporal who is meeting his KPIs and earning the grat is more valuable to the unit than the Captain who is failing to do so. Now I know there would be exceptions to this but I'm talking in general terms across a wide cross section of personnel.

                    If we even got the grat and training calendars both modular or not that were set in stone (with reasonable exceptions) six months before the course is run; the RDF would be in a far better place. Nothing else. Just those.

                    There is always a focus on recruitment to solve the ails of the reserve. Get young blood in etc..... but we really need a good organisation and incentives in place to retain new joiners.

                    Nothing is more disheartening for a private trying their best to make the most of their service despite the challenges than a Sergeant appearing after being missing for six months to preach negativity and how things were better 25 years ago before disappearing back into the mists.
                    The last para is very applicable to your unit and others, discharge them, get the CO to sign the discharge documents and plan real stuff.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                      its been a no brainer since it was cut.

                      not sure what the prob is with a training calendar complaint thats your own unit , Our work programme is literally a mile out the door and its all in line with the job description
                      Some in his unit do paper planning of big things and can't deliver on them or the small things. All units have access to TED, it's signed of Q4 for the following year. His unit has access to it, they produce a paper plan, submit it and then complain that nothing is done. Some here have seen that to often. I have noticed if real work is done properly cadre and pdf units will work with it.

                      Comment


                      • All career courses were well known this year and agreed . Perhaps I am missing your point. ATED exists for sure but if you are focusing on it rather than the reality on the ground with the people you have actually turning up then thats not the ATED issue . Again perhaps I am missing your point. Courses and stuff dont happen unless people put in the blood sweat and tears , get the ammo, kit and ranges sorted i.e. do your fking job . And theres been howlers this year too lol

                        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                        Comment


                        • TED allows you to see what is coming up the following year. But the clever thing is, units are required to submit there requirements, using Training Needs Analysis. This is fed into your BTC and they forward to J7 and DCOS OPS for signature. Each BDE & BTC then plan out what resources are required and order units to provide training staff to each course.

                          Most on here probably know how this works, so this is for the tea drinkers and those that always give out no matter what. As above blood sweat etc follows. Its all work, needs to be shared out, give direction and purchase, empower people, make them feel important. Alot of work goes into off the wall stuff, from my experience, we want what they have knowing we really can't have and put loads of work effort into a battle they can't win. Brass in each unit need to ground them and lead. We would be so much better off if that happened.

                          Anyway rant over, I hope some of the tea drinkers see it's simple if you follow the process. And when they are told no no no they have something to take to rdfra.

                          Comment


                          • What does RDFRA have to do with day-to-day operational and training matters ? zip . One point I am concerned about here is the ATED discussion. While the ATED exists and is required , some of which you mention, individuals in the reserve at the lower end rarely need to worry about what goes into it , TRRs, unit commitments and so on are normally in stone well in advance so people can plan.
                            "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                            "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                              What does RDFRA have to do with day-to-day operational and training matters ? zip . One point I am concerned about here is the ATED discussion. While the ATED exists and is required , some of which you mention, individuals in the reserve at the lower end rarely need to worry about what goes into it , TRRs, unit commitments and so on are normally in stone well in advance so people can plan.
                              “Notification of courses” ?

                              Comment


                              • What point are you trying to make ? RDFRA have no role in the notification of courses .
                                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                                Comment

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