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The Future of the Army Reserve - Discuss

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  • Good point raised

    A good point that was raised was the one on the age profile of the RDF.

    I would agree that too many of the NCOs and Officers in the organisation are too old. And the embargo on promotions has got nothing to do with that.

    As Murph mentioned, the decline of the RDF has been for a number of years, and I would say that is down to the people in charge.

    Fitness levels - the overall level of fitness in the RDF is a disgrace. Too many people see it as a drinking club.
    And the blame for that rests on the shoulders of the officers and senior NCOs - not the DF or anyone else - because those people have never once bothered to make PT compulsory.
    And it is shocking to expect to be taken seriously in a military organisation with the majority not even capable of running for a bus.

    There is no need for a PTI to organise a basic run around barracks. And there is no excuse for any officer/senior NCO in not making PT a compulsory part of training. The attitude seems to be that it cuts into drinking time. Well tough shit.

    I for one would welcome a mandatory fitness level and annual IT as criteria for enlistment. And those that don't make the grade, show them the door. No excuses, no prisoners.

    The organisation won't fall apart with them gone. So it would also burst their bubble too.

    And people in the RDF are not on any contract of employment, so if the DF decide to make that the norm, there is nothing they can do about it. And I think it is the first step, and necessary to making the RDF modern.

    The days of the FCA are gone. The organisation was stood down in 2005. There was a cull when that happened because a lot of deadwood left it, and so they should have.
    But there is a lot of deadwood in the organisation that won't have the good manners to realise their day in the sun is up and leave.

    But with those people hanging around, the organisation will NEVER move forward. And for some reason these people are misguided enough to think that they are the glue holding the organisation together because they have been in it for 30 odd years. No, they're not. They are too old. They don't grasp that they are in a modern organisation. That their friends have all moved on and left, and they have been left behind.

    Its a hard line, but all the majority of senior NCOs and officers in the RDF should take an honest look at what they are doing, what they are accomplishing and also at how their role in the organisation is not having anything but a negative effect on their units and do the honorable thing and step aside. Let the people with the right ideas and tiem on theior side come in and take the organisation forward.

    The deadwood need to go - they need to be honest. They need to be honest with themselves. In order for the RDF to get up and working effectively, it needs fresh minds, fresh ideas and fresh apporaches. But the FCA mentality that still exists is what is suffocating the RDF. And it is people in the RDF that are to balme for that. Not the DF, government or civil sertvants, just those guys.
    Jonesy
    Corporal
    Last edited by Jonesy; 16 September 2010, 16:55.

    Comment


    • Watch out because the "penny dropping" must be falling at the speed of light ie going back in time.

      The priorities of the PDF at the moment are:
      to get recruitment up and running again
      budget cuts
      numbers and locations
      overseas service

      Don't see the RDF figuring much, if at all, in the above.

      The RDF is at the end of a very long list and can probably be best summed up by misquoting Rhett Butler "frankly my RDF we don't give a damm".
      I'm not a number, I'm a free man.
      Who is number 1?

      Comment


      • Originally Posted by Liachta Cultaca
        But we should be paid for all weekends and field day
        No.

        Apart from anything else its wide open to abuse.Short of a clock in system based on DNA samples it could be abused.

        Use the retainer method where you get paid if you meet attendance criteria for a fixed period , say every quarter.

        Random paid weekends are of no benefit. It has to be part of a bigger ongoing cycle rather than people selecting when they want to turn up as opposed to having to turn up.

        This is another reason why the thing is falling apart while some commit every spare moment, theres no point in the same group turning in and then having to replay a years work on a weeks camp to facilitate those who didn't.

        Which brings me on to camps...one weeks camp is worse than useless in that everything is rushed to have everybody in the mess by the following thursday night and home by lunch on friday..waste of time.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

        Comment


        • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          No.

          Apart from anything else its wide open to abuse.Short of a clock in system based on DNA samples it could be abused.

          .
          Sounds like your saying that members of the Reserve and those who over see us cannot, or more to the point should not be trusted.....

          And if we cant be trusted what then???
          But there's no danger
          It's a professional career
          Though it could be arranged
          With just a word in Mr. Churchill's ear
          If you're out of luck you're out of work
          We could send you to johannesburg.

          (Elvis Costello, Olivers Army)

          Comment


          • Originally posted by kermit
            Why?
            If you pay then people then the DoD will expect a return for the pay.

            This means standards will need to be raised, Compulsary fitness, ARP standards

            I thinks it would be better to pay 2500 people for all there time with an integrated model and no cadre than 4500 people with the current batch of poor cadre and in general poor standards.
            I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

            Comment


            • I just love rants about dead wood.

              But would you know deadwood if you felll over it?

              I love the mess. Its a great place to unwind and by God with some of the maniacs we have trained for other units in the last few years unwinding is essential.

              I was amazed during the last ex in the Glen.
              One of our ould lads, a certain Cpl well know to most of, you who smokes and drinks was in charge of a work party, full of young and enthusiastic privates. They had to unload a number of trucks and erect some tents. Most of the supposidly fit young lads were knackered before the first truck was unloaded, including 3 who had just passed the fitness test for the pots course. Where as this Cpl was still going strong and more of us ould lads had to pitch in to get the job done.
              As for females.......

              So please, although I agree there is a need for fitness will ye stop going on as if it is the be all. It's not.

              GF: Re splitting the cav. That was in relation to a DF consolidated in 3 main locations. None of which would be Dublin and so rather than bringing the bikes and men up and down that was one alternative. Of course there is no reason why the job shouldn't be given to the GS or better still save a fortune by scrapping the presidency altogether but that's not a military matter.
              Without supplies no army is brave.

              —Frederick the Great,

              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

              Comment


              • Yes Luchi, we had a good laugh at the so called "future junior leaders" that day.

                As you know the NCO in question and one of our Pte have done various courses on putting up and taking down tents. And they were also involved in putting up and taking down the Special Olympics tent village in CCB back in 2003. So there was absolutley nothing wrong with the instruction being given to the "young guns" that afternoon.

                Then I was sent to Bde HQ where I came upon a number of Snr Officers and Snr NCOs who were putting up a tent on hard standing ground. No problem for them to put up the tent. They would put the so called fit young members to shame. Committment and experience will win out over youth everytime.

                It's all well and dandy to be able to run x km in y minutes but if you don't know where to run to...............................

                Calls to mind the old saying:

                Old soldier old s***
                Young soldier gobs***

                I'm sure you've heard the one about the old bull and the young bull.
                I'm not a number, I'm a free man.
                Who is number 1?

                Comment


                • Just wondering: The PDF are recruiting 4 plns of 40 (Army) and 40 (Navy) over the next 6 months.

                  200 enlisted personnel + 30? Cadets - Thats to re-enforce 10,000.

                  Why does the RDF seek to recruit 800 to 1,000 personnel per year when we know that 90% will leave after the first year?

                  Why not a Rec Pln per RDF brigade and a recruit pln for NSR per year?
                  "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                  Comment


                  • he said jehovah

                    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                    Comment


                    • Sounds like your saying that members of the Reserve and those who over see us cannot, or more to the point should not be trusted.....

                      And if we cant be trusted what then???
                      Lets just say there have been a couple of incidents regarding money, field days and the RDF and cadre which made a few early retirement happen in the last few years....and it took years to find it.

                      Until the system is tamper proof ...its not an option.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • there have been a couple of incidents regarding money, field days and the RDF and cadre
                        All of which points at one of our main problems - lack of responsbility both on our part, lack of trust by the PDF so no responsibility is given and a type of Stockholm syndrome where we do everything possible to live up to the lack of responsibility.
                        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ZULU View Post
                          Why does the RDF seek to recruit 800 to 1,000 personnel per year when we know that 90% will leave after the first year?
                          Now that like asking why the CD train 20 firemen a year in to man a small town AFS that has two appliances and DFB has only trained 30 fulltime fire men in the last 15 years to run Dolphin's Barn station 24/7.

                          Even if the RDF was a part-time job the turn ouer would still be greater than those full-time.
                          Without supplies no army is brave.

                          —Frederick the Great,

                          Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by luchi View Post

                            Even if the RDF was a part-time job the turn ouer would still be greater than those full-time.
                            You sound very sure. Do you have support to back up your statement?

                            Other Reserve forces manage to retain personnel 3+ years
                            "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                            Comment


                            • You will retain some people that in certainally true.

                              But as for supporting the statement.

                              Part-time staff are transient by their nature. Its a job not a career.

                              Other reserve forces may retain higher numbers but do they recrut x% per year in the regulars do they also only recruit only X% in the reserve?
                              Without supplies no army is brave.

                              —Frederick the Great,

                              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                              Comment


                              • Using a comparative model (numbers wise)

                                Strength of the Royal Marines Fulltime (excluding RM band) as of Jan 2010 was:

                                780 Officers
                                5,870 Other Ranks

                                Total = 6,650

                                Recruitment (Fulltime)
                                Intake for 2009/Jan2010 as follows

                                Officers = 60
                                Other Ranks = 960

                                Total = 1040


                                Voluntary Outflow (fulltime) 2009/Jan2010

                                Officers 30
                                Other Ranks 200

                                Total = 230

                                Activated Reserves and Fulltime Reserve Service 2009/jan2010

                                Officers = 20 (10 regular / 10 non-regular)
                                Other Ranks = 140 (20 regular / 70 non-regular / 50 activated reserves)

                                Total = 160



                                The Royal Marines Reserves are approx 750 personnel, Based across 5 centres each consisting of between 3 and 7 detachments in different locations.

                                Each detachment has a holding troop for prospective recruits to train in order to pass selection for recruit training. Approximate numbers per detachment are between 5 - 12

                                Each centre would normally put forward 40-50 personnel who have passed selection to begin recruit training course.

                                5 centres x 50 = 250 personnel

                                This is compared to 1,040 regular recruits/potential officers
                                "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                                Comment

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