Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Future of the Army Reserve - Discuss

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 2. Std Offr Cse is relevant for promotion to Comdt, YOs is promotion to Capt

    4. Single force do the PDF do it? It may force some good people out because they live in Donegal and get posted to a staff job in Dublin

    Comment


    • Never mind snugpaks I genuinely think its a H&S risk sending RDF out on the ground overnight later in the year when their warm top is just the DPM dryflo. The OG fleece and old style norgie was a warm combo but you'll freeze your balls off when static in october/November in the glen with just dryflo/norgie/smock. Telling lads to head to Penney's and buy a fleece wasn't that bad when you got your grat. I remember RDFRA trumpeting the scale of issue they nagged about when it removed the fleece from the scale of issue in 05/06.

      Edit; I presume the OG fleece was replaced by the barracks jacket in the PDF - a case could be made for bringing it back for RDF use surely.
      Last edited by The real Jack; 13 March 2015, 20:26.
      Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
        When you have former members of the RDF being commissioned out of the Cadet School and Sandhurst or indeed excelling in the enlisted ranks of the Irish and British Army, it puts to bed the "We can never make anything of the RDF! They'll always be brutal! No amount of training can save them!" argument.

        The potential is there, it's just a case of harnessing it, giving it purpose and supporting it. Simples.
        ??? Yes of course these guys are excelling but the thing is going through Sandhurst the mil col etc etc means they have completed full time training

        Comment


        • "What happened to the initial issue? S'pose you're going to blame that on reservists too, along with the fact it pissed rain all day yesterday???"

          "Why would you wait until the form up for overseas to try get issued wetgear? It's a well known fact that an "overseas issue" doesn't exist anymore. If they needed it on the form up, they needed it while still in their home Unit too surely? Yet waited until a matter of weeks before travelling overseas to try get it.

          It's something you'd expect from a "Bagger", not a full time, 7 months of hell, wrecking machine of a professional soldier surely?"


          My inital issue got chewed up and spat out the arse end recruit traing, several exercises, FIBUA course and the infamous Recce course (which I passed before someone jumps down my neck over it). Kit doesn't last forever, and when its subjected to the abuse and hard ship (not miss use or neglect) but genuine hard use it becomes US. I came off came off the recce course with several items of kit in tatters and needing replacement. I immediately went through chain of command to my Q and course officer. Filled out all relative damage reports and training loss forms (11 months ago now at this stage) and no matter how hard I screamed or beeged the army just cant afford to replace them. My Q called stores in front of me after several months to prove he wasn't pulling the wool over my eyes and he was to **** off stop calling you'll be told when we have some.
          So now you might think that fair enough the stores staff might just not give a shit about private bloggs who spends too much time on the ground and has ruined their perfectly good kit, but now with a looming overseas deployment, surely they have to be able to drag from the very bowels of the stores that could service not just me but several members of my unit. Again.... nada.... nothing.... I was handed a canvas poncho from the 50's and told to make do. Fair enough thats fine I did what I was told.

          So can you see why we need money to be spent in the relative areas of this organisation? Where its genuinely needed. Where it will achieve the greatest good and allow for greatest operational effectiveness?

          And as for the new issue snugpaks? dry your eyes everyone whos serious about this job buys there own gear. The new issued ones are shit anyway. Everyone left them at home and brought their own.

          And as for the old school norgies not being adequate. Thats a serious case of "I want what he has its new" The old norgies are a serious piece of gear and by no means should have noses turned up at them just because they look dated they're completely functional and its the first thing i reach for on the ground when it gets chilly even though I own 3 poxy snugpaks . Only as a last resort would I take out a snug pak aswell as the norgie.

          Now the UBACS.... they're a grand aul bit of kit... even though I was of the impression the center should be cotton... not dryflo matterial (so as not to melt to your skin????) I know everyone wants one cause they are gucci as ****, and soon as someone puts one on they think they're in the wing. But seriously when during your RDF career has a shirt and driflo been inadequate. Like your never going to deploy to some far distant arid land (not in the foreseeable future, and if you are you'll be given them when required) so why do you need them? Im overseas in the next few weeks its to 30 plus everyday it was 25 all last week... yet how many UBACS were we issued (not just me, but the entire group) ... your thinking maybe 4??? ... at least 2 surely??? .... no ... 1 ... one ****ing UBACS to be worn day in day out on patrols or on duty??? Result?? hardly anyone wears them because they're manky.

          Now you get an idea of just how over stretched this organisation must be? Like dont get me wrong Im the lowest of the low and have insight into the financial well being of this organisation... but from where im sitting... its pretty ****ing grim.


          Comment


          • Originally Posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
            When you have former members of the RDF being commissioned out of the Cadet School and Sandhurst or indeed excelling in the enlisted ranks of the Irish and British Army, it puts to bed the "We can never make anything of the RDF! They'll always be brutal! No amount of training can save them!" argument.

            The potential is there, it's just a case of harnessing it, giving it purpose and supporting it. Simples.



            Obviously members of the RDF have potential... serious potential... another lad who joined the PDF with me and who was in my platoon won best solider. Another who joined just after is now a ranger. Of course the potential is there. Just like the potential is there in civies to do the exact same thing. The RDF didnt turn them into that. It gave them the interest, the further training made them who they are today.

            What Ive seen the RDF to be excellent for is for developing a love for the job, a love for all things army, a try before your buy almost. But a try is all it really is. After 3 years service in the RDF with every single man day attended, every camp enjoyed and only two parade nights missed due to school exams. Do you want to know how long our advantage over civies in our platoons advantage lasted?? 2/3 weeks.... thats it. then they were as highly trained as an RDF soldier. (give or take day later on to learn the gpmg and a day or two learning fieldcraft and tactics). And i wasnt a bag of ham who didnt learn anything in 3 years I got best recruit and took part in everything I possibly could. But they RDF can only take you so far and thats just the harsh reality of it and some people just cant face up to that.

            Comment


            • And one more point before I turn in. I see someone else mentioned it above. FITNESS!!!

              I have met so many driven people in the RDF who have a genuine interest in soldiering. This is all well and good but theres no point walking around dripping in gucci gear and all the latest the army has to offer. They know everything about tactics from our army to the brits to the yanks to who ever else. They know it all about what weapons they have and who uses what. Now let me take the same lad or lass... give him a fully loaded battle vest with front line ammo and flacker... a daysack packed as it should be with his share of section ammo and everything he needs to fight and survive... give him his steyr with 203 attached oh and that bastard that is the SRAWW. (obviously SRAWWS are passed around and not kept to one man) Now kick into a solid 10/15km run finishing in battle PT.... and god help the poor **** who has the mag. Now how many members of the RDF could you honestly say are capable of that???

              You might not think it but we set a world standard for robustness when it comes to our basic training syllabus. There were three ex british army lads in my platoon in training 2 Marines and one RIR... a trip to afghan completed each. The Marines didnt finish recruit training... I think that says a lot about the standards that are set.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by kaiser View Post
                ??? Yes of course these guys are excelling but the thing is going through Sandhurst the mil col etc etc means they have completed full time training
                training has nothing to do with potential, all of these blokes had what it took to become superb, fantastic soldiers before they walked into a recruiting office, training only takes potential, channels it, focuses it, hones it and arms it with skill and learning. it doesn't create it.

                you have good material, we know that because of the amount of it that subsequently walks through our door. that this material is being ignored, or wasted, or not even noticed is a very serious error, though we're happy to profit from it.

                thinking - or being told - that only full-time training can make someone a good soldier is a self-licking cnuts trick, put about by (let me guess...) people who've done full-time training who want to feel superior to people who've not..?

                Comment


                • quoting aside there are some good points there.

                  Training : Wiggles, kaiser etc all make the point that there is a real/perceived but certainly "believed" ethos that there is some glass ceiling involved in PDF basic training - you've either done it or you haven't and if you haven't you're some type of simian that needs a responsible adult at all times to be watching Comparing us to NZ or next door for Reserve training, how does what we do differ in needed content - what is needed that is missing in the time available ? We are miles over the BA's Reserve training as it is for recruits and they deploy o/seas happily .


                  Oh and those times we've been needed ? Orderly officer,BOS, guard of lots of real live barracks , guard on all sorts of fun places that don't make the papers you name it we've been there when the PDF were up shit creek and oh look when the crisis was over nobody noticed the difference
                  Last edited by trellheim; 13 March 2015, 22:25.
                  "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                  "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                  Comment


                  • **** sake lads this site does go round in circles. We are not the BA or NZ .
                    My personal opinion is there is no comparison between Pdf and rdf and it starts with the initial full time training..
                    Things like not getting home when your supposed to being away from home for up to 4 weeks at a time.. I could obviously go on.
                    I'm sure a lot of Rdf guys could do the initial training but that's not an option.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                      Oh and those times we've been needed ? Orderly officer,BOS, guard of lots of real live barracks , guard on all sorts of fun places that don't make the papers you name it we've been there when the PDF were up shit creek and oh look when the crisis was over nobody noticed the difference
                      Yeah fair enough I've seen the RDF used for duties in my barracks a few times and I've done a duty with an RDF cpl as my guard commander. Now I'm not saying this as a personal dig against what you said its just what I witnessed with my own eyes.

                      On the days that the RDF made up an entire guard I can only say their dress, drill, weapons handling and over all deportment were far from inspiring and was almost farcical. (in my barracks the on going duties parade along with the rest of the BTN at the front of the square in full view of the parade).

                      On the day in question that I was on guard with an RDF NCO... He was a sound lad who was good craic, easy to talk to and really wanted to be there.... yet he had absolutely no idea what he was doing, and made a show of himself. Not his fault he simply doesn't have the training, so the PDF privates had to show him what was what. Not in a negative or undermining way. We were curtious and respectful.... but we shouldn't be put in that position? Instructing an NCO on the very basics of camp guard? Explaining the orders to him? Not on really.

                      And as for the crisis they were helping to avert? We have a full strength BTN so were not exactly short on numbers. I'm sorry but it was a we need to justify our existence exercerise.... and it meant we didnt have to do guard.... no body likes guard

                      Comment


                      • Wiggles, I think your attentions on military spending wastage would be best directed at the DF pony club rather than the Reserve component of the Single Force that makes up 30% of your total man power establishment, offering a surge capability for less that 0.5% of a Defence Budget that IIRC is less than 1% of Irish GDP.

                        As for new kit, it's well documented on these boards that I'm a Gucci Kit Whore, but I don't want the new Steyr, new sights, barrack jackets, battle vest etc, because I can soldier on quite happily without them and on a personal note I find some DF issue kit to be shite and would rather have my own. What I really want is for the RDF to have the same operational opportunities and thus training focus as the PDF - single force, single role. That's not to say that I think there should be fixed quotas of RDF personnel on overseas service for example, but rather that DF missions should be populated with the best people for the job, irrespective of whether they serve full time or part time.

                        I think what you fail to understand Wiggles is that what separates the RDF from PDF isn't training or capability, it's readiness. If the PDF needed a Coy to go overseas in a months time, that would be perfectly workable, but it wouldn't with the RDF on the whole. However, give the RDF 6 months notice and 3 months ramp up training, there would be near parity in operational capability between PDF and RDF Troops.

                        Unfortunately though, while the DoD/MA/DF have a Single Force Concept, they don't actually know how it should work, nor do they want to be told, because if they did, they'd invest more heavily in the RDF and support Reservists and employers through legislation, engagement and financial incentives.

                        So where I previously thought that the RDF was being engineered to fail, it's not. Rather, the leadership and policy makers lack the vision, conviction, and initiative to make it succeed.

                        And to top it off Wiggles, your attitude doesn't help either.

                        Comment


                        • Now you get an idea of just how over stretched this organisation must be? Like dont get me wrong Im the lowest of the low and have insight into the financial well being of this organisation... but from where im sitting... its pretty ****ing grim.
                          Nothing has changed then...someone else decides what the guy on the ground need as opposed to the guy on the ground having the choice. How much shit kit gets issued annually when people don't need it cause shortages in other areas.

                          the DF has made several efforts to re invent itself over the past number of years but is still throwing away money trying to maintain structures, posts, barracks that it should have shed years ago and invested the cash in simple logistical improvements around weapon as and clothing issues.

                          The army is too small to maintain its current geographical spread across the the state and the spend around maintaining this spread, because it retains commands, rank structures and appointments is eating into the ability to spend that cash on needy causes such as equipment and clothing.

                          Bad enough where pensions and pay are the main outgoing from a miniscule defence budget, but when empires from within reduce that even further to the detriment of equipment is just stupid.

                          Without naming locations that to my mind are surplus to requirement as long as these locations continue to function, they will eat into that fund that equips a core structure.

                          So the guy overseas with one UBAC will realistically have to look why he has that one shirt, The Cmdt or Lt Col right down to the Pte keeping a post open that was declared a strategic asset when our grandfathers were in service are now a primary source of the drain in resource to keep the the kit ,weapons etc from the people who need it.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • Wiggles,

                            With the cutbacks in the PDF and the (mixed) improvements in training & interoperability the RDF must/needs to be up to capability to do any job it is tasked with.

                            That could be put a Pln on the ground for an ex, providing a guard commander, doing a ATCA task, providing specialist civilian skills.

                            But would you agree that whoever (PDF or RDF) is doing the job should be adequately trained and equipped for the role and conditions (and should be reliable that if they make a commitment to be somewhere they should honour it (assuming they know they made a commitment (eg in the case of the RDF that they were asked and told about it)).

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Wiggles View Post
                              "What happened to the initial issue? S'pose you're going to blame that on reservists too, along with the fact it pissed rain all day yesterday???"

                              "Why would you wait until the form up for overseas to try get issued wetgear? It's a well known fact that an "overseas issue" doesn't exist anymore. If they needed it on the form up, they needed it while still in their home Unit too surely? Yet waited until a matter of weeks before travelling overseas to try get it.

                              It's something you'd expect from a "Bagger", not a full time, 7 months of hell, wrecking machine of a professional soldier surely?"


                              My inital issue got chewed up and spat out the arse end recruit traing, several exercises, FIBUA course and the infamous Recce course (which I passed before someone jumps down my neck over it). Kit doesn't last forever, and when its subjected to the abuse and hard ship (not miss use or neglect) but genuine hard use it becomes US. I came off came off the recce course with several items of kit in tatters and needing replacement. I immediately went through chain of command to my Q and course officer. Filled out all relative damage reports and training loss forms (11 months ago now at this stage) and no matter how hard I screamed or beeged the army just cant afford to replace them. My Q called stores in front of me after several months to prove he wasn't pulling the wool over my eyes and he was to **** off stop calling you'll be told when we have some.
                              So now you might think that fair enough the stores staff might just not give a shit about private bloggs who spends too much time on the ground and has ruined their perfectly good kit, but now with a looming overseas deployment, surely they have to be able to drag from the very bowels of the stores that could service not just me but several members of my unit. Again.... nada.... nothing.... I was handed a canvas poncho from the 50's and told to make do. Fair enough thats fine I did what I was told.

                              So can you see why we need money to be spent in the relative areas of this organisation? Where its genuinely needed. Where it will achieve the greatest good and allow for greatest operational effectiveness?

                              And as for the new issue snugpaks? dry your eyes everyone whos serious about this job buys there own gear. The new issued ones are shit anyway. Everyone left them at home and brought their own.

                              And as for the old school norgies not being adequate. Thats a serious case of "I want what he has its new" The old norgies are a serious piece of gear and by no means should have noses turned up at them just because they look dated they're completely functional and its the first thing i reach for on the ground when it gets chilly even though I own 3 poxy snugpaks . Only as a last resort would I take out a snug pak aswell as the norgie.

                              Now the UBACS.... they're a grand aul bit of kit... even though I was of the impression the center should be cotton... not dryflo matterial (so as not to melt to your skin????) I know everyone wants one cause they are gucci as ****, and soon as someone puts one on they think they're in the wing. But seriously when during your RDF career has a shirt and driflo been inadequate. Like your never going to deploy to some far distant arid land (not in the foreseeable future, and if you are you'll be given them when required) so why do you need them? Im overseas in the next few weeks its to 30 plus everyday it was 25 all last week... yet how many UBACS were we issued (not just me, but the entire group) ... your thinking maybe 4??? ... at least 2 surely??? .... no ... 1 ... one ****ing UBACS to be worn day in day out on patrols or on duty??? Result?? hardly anyone wears them because they're manky.

                              Now you get an idea of just how over stretched this organisation must be? Like dont get me wrong Im the lowest of the low and have insight into the financial well being of this organisation... but from where im sitting... its pretty ****ing grim.


                              "The infamous Recce Course"

                              Stop it. The Recce Course is not infamous, it is a physically and mentally demanding course because the taskings for troops who serve in the relevant appointments after that course, are ones which require troops to perform to a high level. It's a great course to do, an even better one to have passed... It's still not infamous.

                              As for kit issues, welcome to the real world, where even going overseas doesn't guarantee you priority for kit. There has been lads getting ready to travel and incoming PDF Recruits got preference over them... They weren't even in the gate yet. Someone, somewhere, makes a decision on who gets what kit, when they get it, why they're getting it and who gets it first. Should the RDF lads walk around in civvie's? Go out on the ground in civvie's? It's the nature of the beast, if you can't accept that, you're in for a miserable time your career.

                              Everyone knows that money in the DF is tight... The RDF is far from being the biggest "waste" of money. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

                              Look, I've no interest in running down each of your posts. I get it that you're proud of your service. Indeed, I wish more younger lads coming out of training were proud of their service and the organisation they're serving in. Yet, there's zero need to run down the RDF because of it, acting like the entire PDF hates them. Do ya know how much extra thought I give to the RDF? None. I salute their Officer's, say hello to any of them that I pass by and if I work with them, I treat them like I would anyone else. They're part of the Army now, they're part of your Unit, so how about instead of acting like they're the devil reincarnate... Just get used to it.

                              PS. I got issued more UBACS than you, the centre of the shirt is not made of driflo material. The old Norwegian is crud as well, the new one is a million times better.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Wiggles View Post
                                What Ive seen the RDF to be excellent for is for developing a love for the job, a love for all things army, a try before your buy almost. But a try is all it really is. After 3 years service in the RDF with every single man day attended, every camp enjoyed and only two parade nights missed due to school exams. Do you want to know how long our advantage over civies in our platoons advantage lasted?? 2/3 weeks.... thats it. then they were as highly trained as an RDF soldier. (give or take day later on to learn the gpmg and a day or two learning fieldcraft and tactics). And i wasnt a bag of ham who didnt learn anything in 3 years I got best recruit and took part in everything I possibly could. But they RDF can only take you so far and thats just the harsh reality of it and some people just cant face up to that.
                                That is simply not true.

                                A PDF Recruit doesn't do a Section In Attack in the first 2/3 weeks of the syllabus... So no, they weren't as highly trained as an RDF Private with 3 years done, having attended every training day and event in those 3 years. It is a 100% untrue statement to make.

                                Originally posted by Wiggles View Post
                                And one more point before I turn in. I see someone else mentioned it above. FITNESS!!!

                                I have met so many driven people in the RDF who have a genuine interest in soldiering. This is all well and good but theres no point walking around dripping in gucci gear and all the latest the army has to offer. They know everything about tactics from our army to the brits to the yanks to who ever else. They know it all about what weapons they have and who uses what. Now let me take the same lad or lass... give him a fully loaded battle vest with front line ammo and flacker... a daysack packed as it should be with his share of section ammo and everything he needs to fight and survive... give him his steyr with 203 attached oh and that bastard that is the SRAWW. (obviously SRAWWS are passed around and not kept to one man) Now kick into a solid 10/15km run finishing in battle PT.... and god help the poor **** who has the mag. Now how many members of the RDF could you honestly say are capable of that???

                                You might not think it but we set a world standard for robustness when it comes to our basic training syllabus. There were three ex british army lads in my platoon in training 2 Marines and one RIR... a trip to afghan completed each. The Marines didnt finish recruit training... I think that says a lot about the standards that are set.
                                Oh please. Put a full PDF Battalion on that battle run and see how many are capable of it?

                                Do ya know how standards of physical fitness are attained? Through training. Nobody turns up on day one of their Recruit Training and gets tooled upto the max before taking off on a run. I could also argue the usefulness of a 10 or 15km run in kit in terms of the training needs of the job but I won't bother.

                                Like I said, be proud of your service and what you've accomplished. However, the PDF isn't an organisation filled with God like characters... The standard of fitness of a Three Star Private coming out of training are easily achievable.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X