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  • Originally posted by apod View Post
    G3. As in Bde Ops?
    What's the "+"?
    Tech Groups 3 and higher

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    • In what corps?
      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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      • and I think the last standard officer course was the one Trelheim was on
        No there was one after but none since which makes 3 that have run in recent years
        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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        • It’s possibly a bit chicken and egg. People aren’t doing the courses as they aren’t mandatory for promotion. Courses aren’t viable when the take up is so low

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            It’s possibly a bit chicken and egg. People aren’t doing the courses as they aren’t mandatory for promotion. Courses aren’t viable when the take up is so low
            I guess this is because I'm relatively new to the organisation but would people not 'want' to do these courses anyway? Assuming someone has a full RDF career up to officer or SNCO rank, the number of courses is actually fairly low.

            Pot NCO, Standard NCO, Logs Accountancy, Senior NCO.
            Pot NCO, Pot Officer, YO's, standard officer course, (whatever the staff course to facilitate getting to Commandant is).

            You'd think people would want something different the odd year from their usual annual camps?
            Last edited by Auldsod; 30 July 2019, 08:52.

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            • Originally posted by apod View Post
              In what corps?
              Ordnance, Medical, Transport, Engineers at least

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              • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                I guess this is because I'm relatively new to the organisation but would people not 'want' to do these courses anyway? Assuming someone has a full RDF career up to officer or SNCO rank, the number of courses is actually fairly low.

                Pot NCO, Standard NCO, Logs Accountancy, Senior NCO.
                Pot NCO, Pot Officer, YO's, standard officer course, (whatever the staff course to facilitate getting to Commandant is).

                You'd think people would want something different the odd year from their usual annual camps?
                There isn’t really a RDF Logs Accountancy Cse. There have been Logs Admin Cses in the past (but afaik they weren’t intended to be equivalent)

                The Std Offrs Cse is for promotion to Comdt.

                There is no equivalent to the Joint Command and Staff Cse (formerly the Senior Command & Staff Cse). Given the numbers of AR Lt Col’s and the duration of the JCSC it wouldn’t be viable

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                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  There isn’t really a RDF Logs Accountancy Cse. There have been Logs Admin Cses in the past (but afaik they weren’t intended to be equivalent)

                  The Std Offrs Cse is for promotion to Comdt.

                  There is no equivalent to the Joint Command and Staff Cse (formerly the Senior Command & Staff Cse). Given the numbers of AR Lt Col’s and the duration of the JCSC it wouldn’t be viable
                  I was just going off the top of my head. As I said, I'm newish.

                  Point remains the same though. Why wouldn't someone want to challenge themselves with something a bit different to the usual annual camp? I can see how privates might lack the awareness of a PNCO's course coming up especially if communication is bad. Less of an excuse for any of the ranks above.

                  (Then again, I knew a Corporal in the old FCA [still in the RDF at same rank] who didn't know the officer ranks and referred to them as one pip, two pip, etc). Once again, the mind boggles. Maybe it isn't that shocking.
                  Last edited by Auldsod; 30 July 2019, 10:15.

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                  • The last standard officer course was 2013. You can get over the chicken and egg thing by the following: From 2021 promotions from Lt to Capt will require completion of a YOs course, a course will be run in 2020. Promotions from Capt to Comdt will require a Std Officer course from 2022, a course will be run in 2021. The attendance problem will be solved and it will be a fair introduction of an additional requirement

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                    • Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                      The last standard officer course was 2013. You can get over the chicken and egg thing by the following: From 2021 promotions from Lt to Capt will require completion of a YOs course, a course will be run in 2020. Promotions from Capt to Comdt will require a Std Officer course from 2022, a course will be run in 2021. The attendance problem will be solved and it will be a fair introduction of an additional requirement
                      Absolutely but it requires amendments to R5

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                      • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                        Point remains the same though. Why wouldn't someone want to challenge themselves with something a bit different to the usual annual camp? I can see how privates might lack the awareness of a PNCO's course coming up especially if communication is bad. Less of an excuse for any of the ranks above.
                        You would think that but....

                        Fitness requirement means that many will not even try.
                        Career courses are not mandatory so no need to show up.
                        Kissing the Comdts ass on annual camp is considered far more important for your career. This is actually not a joke - going off on a career course means that you could be "contaminated" - taught new ideas that could disrupt the unit. This is really not a joke and is considered a serious threat by some units. Students off mandatory career course (usually PNCOs) could be assigned a Sgt whose task it is is to undo all the training and "can do" attitude the student comes back with. I wish this was a joke, I wish I was exagerrating, but I am not.
                        And the last re-org showed that having career courses done is detrimental to your career. After the last re-org, I would not do another career course - That was the main lesson I learned from it.
                        Last edited by Poiuyt; 30 July 2019, 20:13.

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                        • Originally posted by Poiuyt View Post
                          You would think that but....

                          Fitness requirement means that many will not even try.
                          Career courses are not mandatory so no need to show up.
                          Kissing the Comdts ass on annual camp is considered far more important for your career. This is actually not a joke - going off on a career course means that you could be "contaminated" - taught new ideas that could disrupt the unit. This is really not a joke and is considered a serious threat by some units. Students off mandatory career course (usually PNCOs) could be assigned a Sgt whose task it is is to undo all the training and "can do" attitude the student comes back with. I wish this was a joke, I wish I was exagerrating, but I am not.
                          And the last re-org showed that having career courses done is detrimental to your career. After the last re-org, I would not do another career course - That was the main lesson I learned from it.
                          Your absolutely right, that's the main problem, we must change, we must do career courses, we must force that change through RDFRA and CoC. If we don't we will be gone in a few years. The new lads who have completed career courses should be embraced and we should learn from them. We will never be treated any better by the PDF if we don't and that's our fault. We should be looking to have all that included in R5.

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                          • Pressure was applied to someone I know previously not to go on a skills (not even career) course as it could effect their promotion.

                            RDFRA Policy afaik is mandatory career courses.

                            Sure we can’t even get reference to “OC Bde RDF” removed from R5 and that appointment ceased to exist 6 years ago!

                            Comment


                            • I remember being fresh from a pots course, instructing as I has been shown as per manuals etc and on returning to unit being called aside by a captain and asked "where did you come up with that way of doing xxx"
                              "That's what's in the manual sir." Was my reply.
                              "Dont mind the manual, that's not how we do things around here! It might be fine for the ##th to do it that way, but you aren't with them any more.."
                              My time with the unit was short after that.
                              Post reorg, this man became commandant.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by batterysgt View Post
                                Your absolutely right, that's the main problem, we must change, we must do career courses, we must force that change through RDFRA and CoC. If we don't we will be gone in a few years.
                                I believe it is too late - the 2013 re-org made sure of that. Anyone who had any initiative or ability was tossed on the scrapheap and we all have seen the ability of many who are now in charge. Yes, there are still good people in charge but they are too few and lack critical mass. And the 2013 re-org taught them to keep their mouths shut.
                                That was probably the point of the Re-org - to finish us off.

                                As for RDFRA, whatever about "Policy", they have gone out of their way to kill off fitness requirements and needed change. What they say and what they do are VERY different things.
                                Last edited by Poiuyt; 31 July 2019, 17:26.

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