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  • Lisbon Treaty... & the DF

    ...can someone please tell me what exactly it means for the Irish military?
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Buck View Post
    ...can someone please tell me what exactly it means for the Irish military?
    It means nothing to us as Soldiers because we do as we are ordered

    but if you asked what impact it will have

    then I can safetly say

    none whatsoever- if its voted on a thursday- well on the friday we will still be doing the

    same stuff

    WHat ae your thoughts and fears on this young Buck
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Buck View Post
      ...can someone please tell me what exactly it means for the Irish military?
      Dunno. Why are you asking us?

      You could try an e-mail to Charlie McCreevy, our man in Brussels. He might be able to explain it to you... Oh wait he said he couldn't understand it. But he's just an EU Commissioner so that's fairly understandable.

      Better ask Brian Cowen. But he didn't read it apparently.

      Brian Lenihan. Wait, no he didn't read it either. Didn't read the report about Anglo-Irish either unfortunately. But that's by the way.

      Mary Coughlan? Not that well up on Europe actually.

      Apparently the finest "minds" in Ireland haven't a clue. However they're pretty sure that you won't be drafted into the German army and ordered to march on Russia. Frau Merkel promises.

      All that aside Lisbon has nothing military in it AFAIK. In order to get it through a pesky (second) referendum our neutrality will be assured (maybe). It's just shaving another little sliver off our independence and devolving it to foreigners.
      sigpic
      Say NO to violence against Women

      Originally posted by hedgehog
      My favourite moment was when the
      Originally posted by hedgehog
      red headed old dear got a smack on her ginger head

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
        It means nothing to us as Soldiers because we do as we are ordered

        but if you asked what impact it will have

        then I can safetly say

        none whatsoever- if its voted on a thursday- well on the friday we will still be doing the

        same stuff

        WHat ae your thoughts and fears on this young Buck

        Ah i was just wondering what it will do to military size/neutrality/a eu-army etc etc! i dont really care about the neutrality too much (those bloody ones who always seem to bang on about the war in iraq seem to be using it as a reason to stop the treaty. tell them to eff of and go have a south african ethnic peace crisp!) to be honest as i cant see us getting attacked by anyone for anything, though, we do have that gold at the end of the rainbows...
        Last edited by Buck; 16 June 2009, 00:21.
        I knew a simple soldier boy.....
        Who grinned at life in empty joy,
        Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
        And whistled early with the lark.

        In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
        With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
        He put a bullet through his brain.
        And no one spoke of him again.

        You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
        Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
        Sneak home and pray you'll never know
        The hell where youth and laughter go.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Buck View Post
          ...can someone please tell me what exactly it means for the Irish military?
          Not much. The Nice Treaty & several others have had an impact on the Irish Military.

          Lisbon is merely tidying up some loose ends from the other treaties.

          When they talk of guarantees for Irish Neutrality in the current negotiations, it is more along the lines of "We don't want you to change the wording, just change the size, font, Colour & underline it so the muppets cannot deny it this time"
          Last edited by Docman; 16 June 2009, 02:31.

          Comment


          • #6
            From the Referendum Commission:
            D. Common Foreign and Security Policy
            Common Foreign and Security Policy covers foreign policy and defence policy. The main decisions in this area must be made unanimously. The proposed change to the Constitution would continue the present arrangements for Ireland’s military neutrality.

            E. Mutual Assistance
            The Treaty provides that Member States have an obligation to aid and assist another Member State which is the victim of armed aggression. This assistance is to be in accordance with the UN Charter. The type of aid and assistance that is required is not specified. Mutual assistance is expressly stated not to compromise the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States which includes Ireland’s policy on neutrality.
            The treaty itself is available here:- http://www.lisbontreaty2008.ie/Lisbo...ty_English.pdf

            Some highlights (my paraphrasing):
            move towards common defence policy which we will have to implement - and leading to a common defence
            Decisions will be made a European Council level
            Giving assistance in the case of attack on a member state
            Improvement in military capabilities

            Comment


            • #7
              it means nothing for the DF

              it means when the next vote comes around we will have another hysterical ranting and tantrum from the usual suspects who will tell us that every person in the country is to be conscripted into the 4th reich and if we all just close our eyes the protective forcefield of "neutrality" will descend over the country and protect us from all things.....including swine flu. no wait...maybe too late for that?

              why is this country unable to have adult discussions about neutrality, nuclear power, abortion, etc?

              ...asides from the neutrality issue, a second lisbon vote does question our democratic process though. the country voted against the treaty the last time. the decision was definite and clear. why are we doing it again?
              "you voted no last time...we'll try again and see which answer you give. hint...no is not the right answer!"
              it makes a mockery of free voting and democracy if votes are not respected.
              Last edited by X-RayOne; 16 June 2009, 14:06.
              Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

              And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

              Comment


              • #8
                I know this might be slightly off topic but i heard that the last time this vote was on (i was out of the country) that "european laws would bypass the laws of our own country"
                Does anyone know if there was any truth behind this?

                Comment


                • #9
                  votes are respected but tell me where it says in the COnstitution

                  that you can only vote on something once

                  even business dont operate that way- if somehting os voted against and it is a good idea

                  then efforts should be made to find out why people voted against it ( and they did find out why)

                  remember they found people voted no because they were to stupid and or lazy to look up the treaty

                  in either their library or internet or one of the thousands upon thousnads of copies that were

                  sent to the people.

                  the promise are a crock of shite- do we as an EU really need to spend millions on individual commissioners
                  Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                  Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                  The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                  The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                  The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                  Are full of passionate intensity.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There is no problem about having referenda repeatedly. The swiss have them constantly on wheather they will keep their armed forces or what they will buy for them. Those people who say "it isn't right" having it again have very little understanding of how these things work......

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hedgehog View Post

                      remember they found people voted no because they were to stupid and or lazy to look up the treaty

                      in either their library or internet or one of the thousands upon thousnads of copies that were

                      sent to the people.
                      Bit like Brian Cowan

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                        votes are respected but tell me where it says in the COnstitution

                        that you can only vote on something once

                        even business dont operate that way
                        it doesn't say it in the constitution as you well know.

                        the EU isn't a business so that is irrelevant.

                        however, whats the point in having a vote about something if, as soon as the vote is counted, the politicians and burecrates say thats not acceptable lets do it again and get the acceptable answer? you may as well just not let the people vote and bring in anything you want.

                        but that wouldn't be democratic would it.

                        the same was done with Nice treaty. rejuected first time and immediate calls for a re-vote with the proper answer.
                        a recurring theme from eurocrats pushing their own agenda regardless of european peoples wishes??
                        Fate whispers to the warrior, "There is a storm coming"

                        And the warrior whispers back "I am the storm".

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by paul g View Post
                          Bit like Brian Cowan
                          no but he had some pretty clever people who summarised it for him

                          the way every world leader works

                          do you really think Obama reads every single detailed report

                          or the one page summary

                          do you think it is reasonable to expect the leader of a country that is having a hard

                          time to devote his valuable time to reading a full report

                          when he has a summary that tells the very same stuff
                          Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                          Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                          The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                          The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                          The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                          Are full of passionate intensity.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Even if we do ratify it, how are the other member states that have rejected it going to be bullied?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
                              it doesn't say it in the constitution as you well know.

                              the EU isn't a business so that is irrelevant.

                              however, whats the point in having a vote about something if, as soon as the vote is counted, the politicians and burecrates say thats not acceptable lets do it again and get the acceptable answer? you may as well just not let the people vote and bring in anything you want.

                              but that wouldn't be democratic would it.

                              the same was done with Nice treaty. rejuected first time and immediate calls for a re-vote with the proper answer.
                              a recurring theme from eurocrats pushing their own agenda regardless of european peoples wishes??
                              so you and Ganley - richar dboyd barret- mary lou etc

                              are all in the one gang
                              Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                              Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                              The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                              The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                              The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                              Are full of passionate intensity.

                              Comment

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