The Usefullness of the SLR

[FoxtrotRK]

There may be a will in the "Irish body politic" to do something with the RDF, in this case however out of necessity. The recent Bord Snip Nua proposals could lead to a leaner, more geographically focussed reserve that can hopefully emerge from the downturn a better organisation.

Of course, it could also be the precursor to the organisation's disbandment, but I'm trying to look at things a positive light. I think the Reserve would be best served by infantry units based only in viable barracks, with access to proper training equipment and facilities, while also retaining organic CS and CSS elements (who potentially could provide the greatest VFM). The RDF really could be a great resource from the Defence Forces, if only it was given the chance by the MA and if previously reluctant reservists stepped up to the mark.

[Exo1]

2nd Line Reserve

My 2c is that the RDF is the reserve, the old notion of 1st line and 2nd line reserve is fine but from what I know is a myth, the RDF is the reserve, and ARNG is right, take that away and you have nowhere to go.

FCA unit I started off in were mobilized in the early 80s with 60 days training for a 6 month full time stint and they did it very well for the short training span and covered their jobs proficiently. I talked to the PDF Training Sgt who ran the companys training programme and he told me that he would have being happy to deploy with a platoon after the training, he was impressed with the committment and spared no punches in the training...

Sounds like the role despite all the problems it has is still very clear and important for the RDF..

[spudula]

the domestic operational use (or not) of the RDF comes down to one thing, cribbing and moaning by the PDF, PDFORRA and RACO.

Like I've said before, during the 70's and 80's the FCA did barrack guards, guards on vital installations, border duties and escorts. this all stopped when PDFORRA came about and started complaining (as their perfectly entitled to do on behalf of their members) that PDF lads were losing money cause the FCA were doing their duties.

You can pass all the laws you want to allow the RDF to serve were ever but in the end you'll still hit the same brick wall of PDFORRA and RACO.

[REX]

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Like I've said before, during the 70's and 80's the FCA did barrack guards, guards on vital installations, border duties and escorts. this all stopped when PDFORRA came about and started complaining (as their perfectly entitled to do on behalf of their members) that PDF lads were losing money cause the FCA were doing their duties.

You can pass all the laws you want to allow the RDF to serve were ever but in the end you'll still hit the same brick wall of PDFORRA and RACO.

I'd love to see where you got this from, most PDF personnel, myself included, would be only too glad to let RDF personnel do the duties! After 23 years I've seen enough of the gaurdroom and would happily step aside.

The real reason not using the RDF for duties is that it's cheaper to use PDF, they are only costing €55 approx per weekday duty, €83 per Saturday and €110 for Sunday. While I don't know how much a weekday duty is to RDF personnel I find it hard to believe they would do it for €55

[smegers]

From my own experience i did two duties over new years a couple of years ago and i got a weeks pay for it but that may have been a one off.

[Dazzler]

I'd love to see where you got this from, most PDF personnel, myself included, would be only too glad to let RDF personnel do the duties! After 23 years I've seen enough of the gaurdroom and would happily step aside.

The real reason not using the RDF for duties is that it's cheaper to use PDF, they are only costing €55 approx per weekday duty, €83 per Saturday and €110 for Sunday. While I don't know how much a weekday duty is to RDF personnel I find it hard to believe they would do it for €55

€70 for a 3* in the RDF per day. So while it could be viable at the weekends I could see problems from PDF lads losing out on an extra €110. Which is fair enough really.

[Barry]

The PDF lad is recieving his pay regardless, the 55/83/110 figures are for SDA. To get PDF Pte X to do guard costs his basic pay (remember that he gets military service allowance too, so his basic would be higher than a RDF Pte) plus his duty money, but to get RDF Pte Y to replace him costs the PDF lad's basic pay plus 2 days pay for the RDF lad (since by all rights he should be paid for his day resting off too). Even on a Sunday it's cheaper to get the PDF lad to do it.

[DeV]

Except the DOD won't pay RDF duty money!

[Barry]

Except the DOD won't pay RDF duty money!

I never said that the RDF lad would get duty money. In the unlikely event that the RDF Pte gets duty money the cost would increase even more.

[trellheim]

Correct. 2 days pay is all that the RDF man gets.

[FoxtrotRK]

I can understand the concern about losing out on duty money, but any PDF lads I've spoken to have said they'd be only too happy for the RDF to take up some of the slack.

As for it being cheaper to have the PDF do it, well, there's a segment of the RDF who'd probably do duties for free. I've done weekends for free in the past, and will do them again in the future.

[Barry]

there's a segment of the RDF who'd probably do duties for free

Any such people are very, very silly. Train for free, by all means, but if they want someone to stag on then they better be paying.

[FoxtrotRK]

Any such people are very, very silly. Train for free, by all means, but if they want someone to stag on then they better be paying.

Ideally, yes, but at a time when we're trying to justify the Reserve's existence (almost solely in terms of Value For Money) I don't see it as particularly silly.

[DeV]

I can understand the concern about losing out on duty money, but any PDF lads I've spoken to have said they'd be only too happy for the RDF to take up some of the slack.

If the PDF are entitled to duty money it should be the same for the RDF, plus the days pay for resting off. Otherwise they are discriminating again!!

I've done weekends for free in the past, and will do them again in the future.

Eh.... you have to do the equivalent of 4 unpaid weekends to get any grat!!

I can count the number of paid weekends I've done in 11 years of service on 2 hands

[FoxtrotRK]

I can count the number of paid weekends I've done in 11 years of service on 2 hands

So what would the hassle with doing duties being treated as an unpaid weekend for the purposes of the grat?

Lads, trust me, I'd be much happier getting paid for doing duties, but if it was a case of the RDF performing a limited amount of duties to prove its usefulness, I'd be up for it.