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  • Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Council would rather see cruise ships than naval ships occupying the vacant piers , the cruise ship idea is not likely to happen since the Council got lumbered with the harbour's debt when it was handed over from Dublin Port so maybe the Council might be interested swapping the debt for a Naval Base
    DLR were happy to turf the reserve out as well of Dun Laoghaire which has rankled with me for a very long time.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
      Ah ok

      But with a service that is finding it hard to stay operational as is ????
      I'm thinking long term savings Dev...AM and others have talked about a long-term naval strategy in relation to hulls / capabilities...maybe the current basing pattern is something to look at also.

      And I say that only as an amateur who has an interest in Naval affairs...there are many others on here who can pick my idea apart or put flesh on the bones.
      'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

      Comment


      • Originally posted by spider View Post
        I'm thinking long term savings Dev...AM and others have talked about a long-term naval strategy in relation to hulls / capabilities...maybe the current basing pattern is something to look at also.

        And I say that only as an amateur who has an interest in Naval affairs...there are many others on here who can pick my idea apart or put flesh on the bones.
        Increasing the amount of bases would increase costs

        Comment


        • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
          DLR were happy to turf the reserve out as well of Dun Laoghaire which has rankled with me for a very long time.
          Ah, great memories of being out on the water in the whalers , No 2 Company Slugha
          Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

          Comment


          • Somewhere on the Shannon estuary,perhaps?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              Increasing the amount of bases would increase costs
              Possibly not, if you shared training and admin facilities in existing DF locations. And existing Port infrastructure in a commercial location may drive costs down in the long term.
              'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                Ah ok

                But with a service that is finding it hard to stay operational as is ????
                And perhaps a second base in Dun Laoghaire would help, just look at the catchment area. If you look at the size of the population that live with a 1hr drive it is more than double that which is within the same distance from Haulbowline. I am not saying that nobody moves, but if there is a choice especially for younger people then maybe it could help attract more recruits.

                Comment


                • The US Navy operate only one recruit training centre for the entire country , Naval Station Great Lakes , located north of Chicago on lake Michigan which makes it very central for the whole country .
                  Last edited by Laners; 28 May 2020, 08:11.
                  Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

                  Comment


                  • Just think of the cost of living in the greater Dublin area, not to mention the availability of housing etc. We should be trying to counter-balance the growth of the greater metropolitan area. The Shannon Estuary would be a good alternative!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                      DLR were happy to turf the reserve out as well of Dun Laoghaire which has rankled with me for a very long time.
                      I was associated with SM in the East and Nationally. Harbour based facilities were minimised by the clout politically of recreational paddling, sailing, and motor boating. Over the years the ownership of our Military inheritance, including masses of land in Cork harbour, all the FORTS, Bearhaven, were hived off to PORT developments or to County Councils as AMENITY / MUSEUMS. Politics ruins Government wisdom and foresight, such as putting an amenity park a few metres from Naval Installations. I would like to see key harbours with at least two Naval Berths available for long term berthing with one dedicated to Naval ships permanently like EAST pier in Dunlaoghaire, and South wall in Dublin. Dunlaoghaire had permanent Defence facilities for boats etc. NOT sure of current sit. Technically we are hemmed in at N.Base as all other possible claims to a free berth were rescinded in latest Harbour Acts. We are treated the same as any commercial ship for water, berthing, pilotage etc. The way forward is development of ports like Sligo, Killybegs, Rathmullen, Dundalk ( undredged mud), Drogheda (tidal and Mud) , Wicklow, Wexford, Rosslare, Waterford, and Youghal. We must not make NS homeless or unwelcome in their heritage until the complete package is replicated at other accessible locations.

                      Comment


                      • There are certain items which need to be handled at the national level such as strategic infrastructure, ports, airports, motorways etc. But it seems that the body politic is only active at the local level. It does not matter what election it is EU, national or local it seems that all focus on local issues; the traffic lights at the end of the road, the big pothole...……. Local councils have their role to play but it should never be in managing a strategic national asset.

                        We have an institution called Transport Infrastructure Ireland (Bonneagar Iompair Éireann) formed out of the National Roads Authority and the Railway Procurement Agency. Already most will have spotted the big fail; it only takes care of surface transport. Given the name it should also include ports and airports. At the moment we have disjointed development and that needs to change. As for the NS, it may not need access to every harbour around the coast but it should have facilities at some key ones.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                          There are certain items which need to be handled at the national level such as strategic infrastructure, ports, airports, motorways etc. But it seems that the body politic is only active at the local level. It does not matter what election it is EU, national or local it seems that all focus on local issues; the traffic lights at the end of the road, the big pothole...……. Local councils have their role to play but it should never be in managing a strategic national asset.

                          We have an institution called Transport Infrastructure Ireland (Bonneagar Iompair Éireann) formed out of the National Roads Authority and the Railway Procurement Agency. Already most will have spotted the big fail; it only takes care of surface transport. Given the name it should also include ports and airports. At the moment we have disjointed development and that needs to change. As for the NS, it may not need access to every harbour around the coast but it should have facilities at some key ones.
                          There's risks involved in that, the more you add to TII the less it will be able to do as it's "on the books" of the state and therefore is limited by what budget we have available (hence for example why the Cork-Limerick is always "unlikely" to happen with it's price tag). The Ports being "Semi-Public" means their borrowings for Capital investment like the ESB for example aren't counted on the National Accounts and therefore aren't limited by the National Debt restraints. So yes we could have a more centralised system, however that woul come with more reductions in the ability to fund long term development as it would be coming from the same pot of funding as Rail/Road...

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Laners View Post
                            The US Navy operate only one recruit training centre for the entire country , Naval Station Great Lakes , located north of Chicago on lake Michigan which makes it very central for the whole country .
                            A few years ago, some friends from the US were over, including their father, Marvin (in his 70’s). We got the ferry over to Ireland with them, and Marvin was very excited, he said it was his first time ever on a ship at sea. I knew he was a USN Vet, but when I asked him how come, he said he’d spent seven years in the USN based in Chicago the whole time - be never got near the sea!

                            Anyway, I digress, carry on...
                            'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                            'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                            Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                            He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                            http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                              Dún Laoghaire would have been useful in this regard, but it's been completely handed over to the leasure boaters. A waste of a fine port, with plenty of quay space, easily secured. Surprised CIL haven't been kicked out too.
                              OK - first a declaration of interest - I'm a recreational sailor out of Dun Laoghaire so my perspective is that of a user of the harbour.

                              1. It has not been "handed over" to leisure boaters - the Harbour Authority (god bless them) decided to fleece sailors by building a marina with a private consortium, extinguishing hundreds of swinging moorings and forcing existing sailors to pay the most expensive mooring fees in Ireland (if not Europe) to use the new facilities.
                              2. They limited the options by refusing foreshore licences to at least 1 of the clubs that wished to extend their moorings to provide an alternative;
                              3. They then tried to extort additional money from Stena for the use of the ferry terminal and, as a result, presided over the demise of ferry services from DL for the first time in nearly 200 years.
                              4. They then spent huge amounts of money on a nutcase scheme to attract mega cruise liners away from Dublin port ( yes - competing with an entity 5 miles down the road) and extinguishing what remained of the swinging moorings. That failed.
                              5. Oh and the one real job they had , the maintenance of the infrastructure, was neglected with the result that the mailboat pier is unuseable, the Stena terminal is deserted, the bandstand had to be replaced when part of the pier fell into the sea and the terminal car park is now only used for drifting competitions and the occasional concert.

                              The story of DL harbour is one of neglect, incompetence and local political interference. Of course we should have a NS presence there - the section of pier beside the bandstand is still called the Navy pier locally but I don't believe it has any legal force. But that would require a degree of proactivity by the DoD - but silly me I've just realised the naïvety of that statement.

                              Now this mess has been inherited by DLRCC - the same outfit that destroyed the commercial heart of Dun Laoghaire. If I sound bitter it's because I grew up near DL and I have seen it decline dreadfully over the decades.

                              Rant over.
                              “The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards.”
                              ― Thucydides

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Shaqra View Post
                                OK - first a declaration of interest - I'm a recreational sailor out of Dun Laoghaire so my perspective is that of a user of the harbour.

                                1. It has not been "handed over" to leisure boaters - the Harbour Authority (god bless them) decided to fleece sailors by building a marina with a private consortium, extinguishing hundreds of swinging moorings and forcing existing sailors to pay the most expensive mooring fees in Ireland (if not Europe) to use the new facilities.
                                2. They limited the options by refusing foreshore licences to at least 1 of the clubs that wished to extend their moorings to provide an alternative;
                                3. They then tried to extort additional money from Stena for the use of the ferry terminal and, as a result, presided over the demise of ferry services from DL for the first time in nearly 200 years.
                                4. They then spent huge amounts of money on a nutcase scheme to attract mega cruise liners away from Dublin port ( yes - competing with an entity 5 miles down the road) and extinguishing what remained of the swinging moorings. That failed.
                                5. Oh and the one real job they had , the maintenance of the infrastructure, was neglected with the result that the mailboat pier is unuseable, the Stena terminal is deserted, the bandstand had to be replaced when part of the pier fell into the sea and the terminal car park is now only used for drifting competitions and the occasional concert.

                                The story of DL harbour is one of neglect, incompetence and local political interference. Of course we should have a NS presence there - the section of pier beside the bandstand is still called the Navy pier locally but I don't believe it has any legal force. But that would require a degree of proactivity by the DoD - but silly me I've just realised the naïvety of that statement.

                                Now this mess has been inherited by DLRCC - the same outfit that destroyed the commercial heart of Dun Laoghaire. If I sound bitter it's because I grew up near DL and I have seen it decline dreadfully over the decades.

                                Rant over.
                                Rant accepted, if it's any consolation my first visit to DL was by sea, in a leisure boat, via the yacht club. Their showers were much better than that found aboard.
                                I was a frequent visitor over the years since and always liked the vibe there.
                                My last visit in 2018, I was shocked at the decline of the whole town. I think the decline of the Harbour contributed largely to this. That and of course Heroin.

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