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  • 24/7 Front Line Service Alliance no more

    Just seen this on PDFORRA's website.
    http://pdforra.ie/news/?cat=5

    Looks like we are on our own again.
    I haven't been able to contact any representatives on the subject so far.....

  • #2
    That might not be such a bad idea.

    I was talking to a lad from Revenue over the weekend.

    There are allowances paid to senior public servants that in his mind should not be paid.

    If everyone is lumped together then it becomes about cutting allowances as opposed to paying for a job being done.

    A soldier gets SDA for being on duty for 24 hours. Certain civil servants get an "on call" allowance because they might be asked to type a letter on a saturday.
    Without supplies no army is brave.

    —Frederick the Great,

    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

    Comment


    • #3
      I doubt the DoD's reason for preventing contact with the 24/7 Front Line Service alliance is to protect our allowances.

      Comment


      • #4
        The problem with the Public sector is that it failed to have the allowances included as part of the basic rates of pay as far back as 1972 and the allowances have now spiralled out of control and are a very legitimate target for cuts.

        Take the case of a Nurses pay packet. The basic salary is quite mediocre but when you start factoring in the differnt premuim rates and allowances these can make it quite considerable.

        In my own area a post that attracts a salary of 27k p.a can mulitlpy out to 48k with allowances and regular premuim payments....not my own post as a mere line manager I'm paid 39hrs flat working 9 to 5 Mon to Friday.

        I've seen the payscales and allowances for the whole HSE....Was John O Donoghue ever minister for health?..he would have cleaned up!!!!
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by bored snipped:( View Post
          I doubt the DoD's reason for preventing contact with the 24/7 Front Line Service alliance is to protect our allowances.
          Of course not. But it might work out for the better in the long run.

          Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          allowances have now spiralled out of control and are a very legitimate target for cuts.

          a salary of 27k p.a can mulitlpy out to 48k with allowances and regular premuim payments....
          And this is the info that will be flogged over the next while.

          I get no allowances for doing my job. I get a salary. If I have to work at night then so be it. Its part of the job. Tough!
          And there are plenty of Private sector employees in the same boat.

          I think the army have a unique case but it they are lumped in with the others no one will care!!
          Without supplies no army is brave.

          —Frederick the Great,

          Instructions to his Generals, 1747

          Comment


          • #6
            In many ways the public sector in Ireland is way behind the one in the Uk. Or is it fair to say we inherited the british system, and while they changed we didn't.

            I know from talking to prison officers in the Uk, there was a time, pre 1989 that they had a poor wage but made a fortune in overtime, but worked 70 hours a week. Result was that while they made £60,000 a year in the late 1980's they all dropped dead when they retired, as the job is actually quite stressful.

            The reforms was that they got a set salary and worked a 39 hour week. Many complaints about it at the time, but all the old timers now say it was the best thing that ever hppened to them.

            After reforms, they got a fair wage, but allowances should never have been counted for things like mortgage applications anyway.

            Comment


            • #7
              And this is the info that will be flogged over the next while.
              and so it should

              I think the army have a unique case but it they are lumped in with the others no one will care!!

              No differnce the Army are the same as nurses doctors etc, they have to do the job to be paid the allowance,

              The allowance as a singular payment should have been built in to the paystructure rather than a bonus to avoid it been signled out in the futre.

              the law says certain payments muts be maide in realtion to night workers and those who work unsociable hours but these persons accepted these jobs knowing they were odd hours involved , swhy should they be paid an allowance or premium to work their shif just because its deemed unsociable.

              Its a days work that could be roster out evenly meaning that no one group is saddled with it thus removing the requirment for unsociable hours prmium and allowances.
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post

                the law says certain payments muts be maide in realtion to night workers and those who work unsociable hours but these persons accepted these jobs knowing they were odd hours involved , swhy should they be paid an allowance or premium to work their shif just because its deemed unsociable.

                Its a days work that could be roster out evenly meaning that no one group is saddled with it thus removing the requirment for unsociable hours prmium and allowances.
                Again coming from a prison service background, there are no extra payments for nights in the uk, officers work for seven days straight and then have a week off. In reality, since the prisoners sleep or watch Tv and are locked up, most prison offcers do as well, or watch DvD or play playstation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                  No differnce the Army are the same as nurses doctors etc, they have to do the job to be paid the allowance,

                  Its a days work that could be roster out evenly meaning that no one group is saddled with it thus removing the requirment for unsociable hours prmium and allowances.
                  Although I have to agree in principal there are certain differences between the DF and others.

                  For example a Dublin nurse cannot be told that from tomorrow s/he will be working in Cork.

                  When the enemy advances the Doctor or nurse can retreat.

                  Not every one in the army will be doing CIT etc so the payment cannot be simply evened out to pay every one to do x per year.

                  Actually can someone tell me, is there a difference in army pay for a weekday or weekend 24hour duty?
                  Without supplies no army is brave.

                  —Frederick the Great,

                  Instructions to his Generals, 1747

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    These are the criteria for different payments of Security Duty Allowance.
                    Obviously i'm not gonna print figures, its a need to know basis
                    Duties which commence and finish within normal working hours do not qualify for extra payment with the exception of cit/explosive subs, however the following do:
                    in ascending order
                    (i) Mon - Sat less than 24 hours
                    (ii)Mon - Sat (24 hours)
                    (iii)Sundays and Defence Forces Holidays (less than 24 hours)
                    (iv)Saturday 24 hour duty (no working day as a rest day)
                    (v)Sundays and Defence Forces Holidays (24 hours)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Obviously i'm not gonna print figures, its a need to know basis

                      Can be requested under the FOI as it is in the public domain, I did it for the entire HSE paysystem and traumatised my self.

                      Yes but its a spacefiller..a days work..why should you be given an allowance to do adays work. Ok you can claim sub if away from base with out meals but a CIT allowance no way!
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                        Can be requested under the FOI as it is in the public domain, I did it for the entire HSE paysystem and traumatised my self.

                        Yes but its a spacefiller..a days work..why should you be given an allowance to do adays work. Ok you can claim sub if away from base with out meals but a CIT allowance no way!

                        CITs can be a very long days work as I'm sure you know.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          For the DF the rates are in the public domain and can be seen here http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/eb9a86f46ada6f4280256c61003e1c58/eced65584861ba7680256c7e00421c7e/$FILE/ATTGAC4O/A.pdf

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                            Can be requested under the FOI as it is in the public domain, I did it for the entire HSE paysystem and traumatised my self.

                            Yes but its a spacefiller..a days work..why should you be given an allowance to do adays work. Ok you can claim sub if away from base with out meals but a CIT allowance no way!
                            I get mounted at early in the morning for a CIT and don't get back to barracks until late evening, that's a lot longer than a normal days work.

                            By the way, there is no "CIT allowance" the only thing while on CIT you can claim is sub and it works out at about 20 quid, maybe a bit more.

                            MOD: Don't give even approximate timings for CIT duties
                            Last edited by DeV; 7 October 2009, 18:40.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree, CIT can be a lot longer than a normal working day, and is one of the longest toughest taskings out there, and such a big target for criminal gangs nowadays, its only a matter of time until we are eventually hit up. These allowances are paid because the jobs that the DF undertake, along with ambulance crews, nurses, fire service, gardaí etc are jobs that most people can't do and most people won't do.
                              A small price to pay don't you think?

                              Comment

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