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  • Representation

    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    The British Army are trying to get one!
    Doesn't matter, it's the wrong thing for the right reason. It also puts things in perspective when you think of the farcical issues that are top of the agenda for the likes of RACO, PDFORRA and RDFRA here when you think of real issues for those in the BA at the moment.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jessup View Post
    Doesn't matter, it's the wrong thing for the right reason. It also puts things in perspective when you think of the farcical issues that are top of the agenda for the likes of RACO, PDFORRA and RDFRA here when you think of real issues for those in the BA at the moment.
    Your in none of those organisations and yet

    you know whats at the top of their agendas

    Is there no limits to your talents and powers.

    Can you list out without googling it

    what exactly you claim is on the agenda of each organisation
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Comment


    • #3
      Get over yourself HH. I suppose it is possible considering how dysfunctional those three organizations are that they would publicise the issues at the bottom of their agenda, but from recent coverage of ADCs and other cribs and whinges in the press over the last few months.

      RACO - Maintaining Uniform Allowance, preserving the Equitation School and promotion

      PDFORRA - Maintaining Border Allowance for those not involved in Border Operations, replacing ships we can't afford and promotion

      RDF - Maintaining training days for young fellas to go on the piss for a week each summer, RDF serving o/seas and promotion.


      Is there any issue that either of those three useless organisations are pursuing or have ever pursued for that matter that is anywhere remotely as serious or worthwhile as a similar organisation being set up in the UK to address the appalling medical care and paltry compensation payments that many of the BA guys (and some TA guys in particular, in the context of this thread) are getting when they come home for o/seas?
      Last edited by Jessup; 18 November 2009, 00:20.

      Comment


      • #4
        Seeing as I dont have the power of knowing everything

        and as I am not a member of RACO or RDFRA - I cannot comment on any of their policies-

        PDFORRA is however a valuable organisation that is badly needed.

        I notice your attack on promotion-

        You as an Officer never had to worry about it- up to Comdt it was a certainty for you and this attack on

        PDFORRA is

        from the guy why was guaranteed by birthright the pension of a Comdt simply by turning up every day-

        As one of your ex comrades told me once-he would nearly have to apply not to be promoted to get Comdt.

        Its amazing how you attack 3 organisations that you know nothing of - nor are you a member of.

        I am awaiting your attack on my local residents association with anticipation.
        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
        Are full of passionate intensity.

        Comment


        • #5
          Now HH,
          You have to admit there has been much critisim of those organisations in recent times.
          Critism of RDFRA has its owm dedicated thread so there is no need to say more here.

          But you have on more than one occasion said that a soldier does what he is told. Thats the job end of story. If that was actually the end of the story then there would truely be no place or need for a representative body. You could simply make your greivences known to your CO who could simply tell you to put up and shut up.

          You have to admit that there is a valid point.
          If the MA were looking after the best interests of the Officers, Men and Reserve as percieved by these then there would be no need for RACO, PDFORRA or RDFRA.
          RDFRA spent for years looked and is still looking for kit that should have been issued anyway. Surely you must agree that this should not ne necessary?
          But we all know it is!

          Jessup why is Promotion a farcical issue?
          Any organisation or business should be looking for the best from its people. Promotion is an incentive to get the best form people. Take away that incentive and what do you have?
          O/S service would give a definite purpose to the training. Ok those of us in tpt and to some extent medics put our training to use but for others the chance of O/S is the chance to actually put training into practice. Isn't that what the reserve should be about?
          For many RDF units the only chance they get for serious tactical training is the weeks or two FTT. And contary to what anyone says FTT is not about having a drink!
          IMHO fighting for for FTT and O/S is as farcical as fighting for the organisation to exist.
          Without supplies no army is brave.

          —Frederick the Great,

          Instructions to his Generals, 1747

          Comment


          • #6
            Mate I am not in RDFRA so it would be wrong of me to comment on its internal workings

            except to wish it the best.
            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
            Are full of passionate intensity.

            Comment


            • #7
              I didn't ask you to. I was just making the point, that the three organisations have come in for some pretty stiff critism lately. So Jessups lack of direct involvement doesn't exactly mean he or anyone els is totally ignorant of whats going on.

              (Maybe the lack of quotes confused the issue)
              Without supplies no army is brave.

              —Frederick the Great,

              Instructions to his Generals, 1747

              Comment


              • #8
                yes and cut that shoestring as u call it smegers.. look at the navy they cant even get a new ship .. i no different topic but example .. let just disband the rdf and try keep what we have in pdf...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jessup View Post
                  RDF - Maintaining training days for young fellas to go on the piss for a week each summer, RDF serving o/seas and promotion.
                  I object to the comment "for young fellas to go on the piss", my unit makes could use of the training days allocated to do military training.

                  So maintaining (and increasing) training days, overseas service and promotion are very valid things for a representative association to look for.

                  Maintaining/Increasing training days leads to a better trained reserve while getting paid for the time they invest.

                  Overseas service leads to the reserve making a greater contribution to the DF.

                  Promotion: A fair an equitable promotion system is a must.

                  So if these areas shouldn't be the priority of RDFRA then what should?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                    PDFORRA is however a valuable organisation that is badly needed.
                    What is your example of a valuable, badly needed contribution that any of those three useless organisations have made to the DF? RACO and RDFRA are just as bad as PDFORRA. They're nothing but a political fop to a real issue that existed decades ago but is nowhere near as relevant now.

                    Where's your sense of perspective? The OP was about a similar organisation being set up in the UK there are real issues, life and death issues, not some waffle about allowances, promotions or other trade union, bolshevik nonsense.

                    Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                    I notice your attack on promotion- You as an Officer never had to worry about it- up to Comdt it was a certainty for you and this attack on PDFORRA is from the guy why was guaranteed by birthright the pension of a Comdt simply by turning up every day- As one of your ex comrades told me once-he would nearly have to apply not to be promoted to get Comdt.
                    The promotion embargo applies to all ranks with only a handful of Snr Offrs and Snr NCOs promoted plus some acting ups for o/seas. Now according to you, I must be still in either the DF or a member of one of those three wasteful organizations to even have the cheek post that info. Hate to break it to you, but that's public record from a PQ that was reported in the newspapers.

                    Therefore the embargo is affecting all three representative associations and its a bare faced cheek for any of them to complain about it considering the current environment. There are many unemployed people that would take a demotion and pay cut to hold on to the job they lost never mind crying like babies about not being promoted, or loosing an allowance that they don't deserve in the first place etc.

                    Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                    Its amazing how you attack 3 organisations that you know nothing of - nor are you a member of. I am awaiting your attack on my local residents association with anticipation.
                    I'm not a member of the Government or any political party and I, or anyone else is entitled to attack them, particularly when they articulate such a stupid agenda in public. The same applies to the goons in RACO, PDFORRA and RDFRA. Are there no real issues in the DF that these guys should be pursuing within their terms of reference?

                    As for the residents association analogy. If my estate is in the midst of the worst social hardship since the foundation of the state and all you and your residents association next door is concerned about is the flower beds then your association deserves nothing but scorn and contempt.
                    Last edited by Jessup; 18 November 2009, 20:11.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                      So if these areas shouldn't be the priority of RDFRA then what should?
                      RDFRA or any of the three associations shouldn't exist at all, so there would be no priority for them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kermit
                        Man Day allocations is outside the remit of RDFRA isn't it?

                        RDFRA from what I can see looks for Medals, Sam Brownes, and DPM Wet Gear, and not much else.
                        Doesn't stop then sticking their oar in. That RACO quote on another thread about not taking orders from a RDF officer is another example. He should have been paraded at the very least for that. He might think it but cannot articulate it. As PDFORRA getting involved in this Front Line Alliance carry on. WOD has gone soft, they should have been locked up

                        I, .................................................. ..........  ............................, do solemnly swear (or declare) that I will be faithful to Ireland and loyal to the Constitution and that while I am a man of the Defence Forces I will obey all lawful orders issued to me by my superior officers and that while am a man of the Permanent Defence Force I will not join or be a member of or subscribe to any political organisation or society or any secret society whatsoever and that, if I become a man of the Reserve Defence Force, I will not, while I am a man of the Reserve Defence Force, join or be a member of or subscribe to any secret society whatsoever,
                        Last edited by Jessup; 18 November 2009, 20:26.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally Posted by hedgehog
                          I notice your attack on promotion- You as an Officer never had to worry about it- up to Comdt it was a certainty for you and this attack on PDFORRA is from the guy why was guaranteed by birthright the pension of a Comdt simply by turning up every day- As one of your ex comrades told me once-he would nearly have to apply not to be promoted to get Comdt.

                          The promotion embargo applies to all ranks with only a handful of Snr Offrs and Snr NCOs promoted plus some acting ups for o/seas. Now according to you, I must be still in either the DF or a member of one of those three wasteful organizations to even have the cheek post that info. Hate to break it to you, but that's public record from a PQ that was reported in the newspapers.
                          You were long gone before the promotion embargo came in.

                          My original point was that you have some cheek commenting on anything to do with promotion-

                          When you were actually in the job

                          Originally Posted by hedgehog
                          I notice your attack on promotion- You as an Officer never had to worry about it- up to Comdt it was a certainty for you and this attack on PDFORRA is from the guy why was guaranteed by birthright the pension of a Comdt simply by turning up every day- As one of your ex comrades told me once-he would nearly have to apply not to be promoted to get Comdt.
                          Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                          Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                          The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                          The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                          The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                          Are full of passionate intensity.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I can certainly comment on something that is put in the public domain by the likes of RACO, PDFORRA and RDFRA. Anyone in the DF now should be hull down and recognize that many people in this country would give their right arm to be worried about promotion. It beats an impending P45 any day of the week.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              What were the most recent PDFORRA and RACO motions at their ADC/AGMs?
                              "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                              Comment

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