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RG32-best choice by Army

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  • RG32-best choice by Army

    This is my first time posting. I came across this site while I was doing some research into the RG32 recently purchased for the Army from BAE South Africa. Sweden and Finland have also chosen the vehicle.

    I note from some previous postings on this matter that the RG32 was not considered a very likely winner by some of the members here. However, having some experience of the pedigree of this vehicle I would like to offer the following few observations.

    The RG32 is a derivative of the South African Nyala which itself belongs to a stable of monocoque V-shaped hull vehicles developed initially in the then Rhodesia. The South Africans were quick to learn from the Rhodesian experience and subsequently became world leaders in this design. The US has now placed orders running into the thousands for variants of this design with BAE.

    In the final years of the Rhodesian war the latest (Mark 1V) vehicles practically eliminated completely losses due to landmines/RPG/IED. With these vehicles the Rhodesians " no longer attempted to detect and avoid the killing ground of an ambush, they detected and attacked directly into it". While serving with the BSAP (Rhodesian Police) I had first-hand experience of the reliability and effectiveness of these vehicles. Incidentally, even in sanctions-bound Rhodesia trooping and convoy instructions in the late 1970's stated that Landrovers must not be used other than in routine safe urban environments.

    The RG32 has already proved its worth in Afghanistan where it has been deployed by the Swedish/Finnish element of ISAF. In one insurgent-initiated contact last year the crew of four survived an initial RPG attack without injury and went on to win the subsequent firefight resulting in 3 enemy killed and 2 captured.

    By comparison, there should be great concern at the performance of the British Jackal. I note that the Irish Army used experienced drivers in their tests. There should be many questions asked on the disgraceful procurement process for the Jackal in the UK. I would like to come back to this subject later.

    For an independent view of the v-shape hull debate some of you might like to Google an excellent paper

    Mine Resistant Armor Protected Vehicles
    by
    Maj Roy Mc Griff III
    United States Marine Corps.

    This was a paper submitted in partial fulfillment of the requrements for the
    School of Advanced Warfighting at Quantico.

    The Army should be congratulated on an excellent choice-good work by everyone from the drivers upwards.

    Tim Horgan

  • #2
    Tim any word when they arrive in the curragh

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank You,
      I am afraid that I am completely out of the loop on delivery dates. However, I hope you have time to look at Maj. McGriffs paper.
      Kindest regards,
      Tim

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by zone 1 View Post
        Tim any word when they arrive in the curragh
        Thank you, Zone One,

        I have no idea- I am actually apalled by the fiasco here in the UK concerning the Jackal. Even the Jackal Mrk 2 seems to be seriously flawed.

        Anyway, if you have time please look up the Marine Corps paper.

        Kindest regards,
        Tim Horgan

        Comment


        • #5
          The US has now placed orders running into the thousands for variants of this design with BAE
          For the record, it is the most disliked of all the MRAP variants. I prefer to sit in the HMMWV because it's so God-awful uncomfortable and you can't see out of it. Couguars, manufactured by Force Protection, are far more popular, they're more comfortable, a tad more maneuverable, and reputedly a little better protected. One of my platoons has tapped into the Navy supply system and has obtained enough Cougars that the RGs stay in the parking lot and never turn a wheel. Not saying that RG-31s don't work, they do, I'm just saying they're not the only thing out there.

          By comparison, there should be great concern at the performance of the British Jackal. I note that the Irish Army used experienced drivers in their tests. There should be many questions asked on the disgraceful procurement process for the Jackal in the UK. I would like to come back to this subject later.
          Jackal and MRAPs are designed really for two different roles, and should not be compared on the same basis. Jackal is not designed to be a difficult-to-kill-with-a-mine vehicle, just as RG-32 isn't designed to go tootling offroad at any great speed, let alone the speeds that Jackal can do. One is a highly mobile, off-road weapons platform, designed to take the fight to the enemy. The other is an armoured transport system designed to get people from A to B without getting blown up.

          It's different horses for different courses. The Irish Army has a need for a mine-protected vehicle to get its people safely around wherever they are. I'm sure the RG-32 will perform admirably in the role. The Irish Army presumably does not see a need any time soon for chasing down Taliban insurgents over the rather unforgiving Afghan terrain. That, the Jackal can do quite well. And the only way to actually -win- a war is to go on the offensive.

          NTM
          Last edited by California Tanker; 15 January 2010, 05:04.
          Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
            I am actually apalled by the fiasco here in the UK concerning the Jackal. Even the Jackal Mrk 2 seems to be seriously flawed.
            Flawed how?
            Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Is there a high centre-of-gravity problem with those MRAP vehicles, making them prone to roll over?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by California Tanker View Post
                Jackal and MRAPs are designed really for two different roles, and should not be compared on the same basis. Jackal is not designed to be a difficult-to-kill-with-a-mine vehicle, just as RG-32 isn't designed to go tootling offroad at any great speed, let alone the speeds that Jackal can do. One is a highly mobile, off-road weapons platform, designed to take the fight to the enemy. The other is an armoured transport system designed to get people from A to B without getting blown up.

                It's different horses for different courses. The Irish Army has a need for a mine-protected vehicle to get its people safely around wherever they are. I'm sure the RG-32 will perform admirably in the role. The Irish Army presumably does not see a need any time soon for chasing down Taliban insurgents over the rather unforgiving Afghan terrain. That, the Jackal can do quite well. And the only way to actually -win- a war is to go on the offensive.

                NTM
                nicely put Cal, despite the Jackals limited protection against IED's it is every soldiers best friend due to its mobility and fire-power.

                the RG-32 will also be a great addition to the Irish DF fleet, i wonder will they ship a couple over to Afghan?
                RGJ

                ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                The Rifles

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                  the RG-32 will also be a great addition to the Irish DF fleet, i wonder will they ship a couple over to Afghan?
                  Why? there's only a handfull over there and their joyriding is in other forces vehicles.
                  "The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ZULU View Post
                    Why? there's only a handfull over there and their joyriding is in other forces vehicles.
                    thats a fantastic image

                    some sunburned scaldy irish commandant hanging on the side of an abrams or a viking
                    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
                    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
                    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
                    And whistled early with the lark.

                    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
                    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
                    He put a bullet through his brain.
                    And no one spoke of him again.

                    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
                    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
                    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
                    The hell where youth and laughter go.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      No Abrams here so far, the closest is the ABV.

                      There are some Leopard 2s, though.

                      Is there a high centre-of-gravity problem with those MRAP vehicles, making them prone to roll over?
                      Their height does not help, either going through the tunnels or trying to go off-road. M-ATVs are a little better at most things, but we'll see when we get ours later this month.

                      NTM
                      Driver, tracks, troops.... Drive and adjust!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Photos anyone?
                        WARNING: Consumption of alcohol may lead you to believe that ex-lovers are really dying for you to ring them at 4am!!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by timhorgan View Post
                          I came across this site while I was doing some research into the RG32 recently purchased for the Army from BAE South Africa.

                          ...

                          While serving with the BSAP (Rhodesian Police) I had first-hand experience of the reliability and effectiveness of these vehicles.
                          The first sentences suggests you are a largely uninvolved spectator. The second sentence is rather different.

                          Part of me is sceptical about motivation.
                          Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ZULU View Post
                            Why? there's only a handfull over there and their joyriding is in other forces vehicles.
                            Not true.The lads have Armoured Nissan Patrols out there.(In the public domain already MODS,before ye have a panic attack!)
                            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by apod View Post
                              Not true.The lads have Armoured Nissan Patrols out there.(In the public domain already MODS,before ye have a panic attack!)
                              ...

                              MOD: Operational information!
                              Last edited by Buck; 15 January 2010, 20:59.
                              I knew a simple soldier boy.....
                              Who grinned at life in empty joy,
                              Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
                              And whistled early with the lark.

                              In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
                              With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
                              He put a bullet through his brain.
                              And no one spoke of him again.

                              You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
                              Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
                              Sneak home and pray you'll never know
                              The hell where youth and laughter go.

                              Comment

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