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removal from Non-Effective Strength ??

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  • removal from Non-Effective Strength ??

    Understanding that each individuals case is different, and each should be threated differently, but should a member be removed from the non-effective strength. Should there be different rules between Ranks, Especially for Officers or even senior NCOs'.
    How are Units handling this around the country or is there even a directive on the issue? Thanks Folks.

  • #2
    R5 sections 49 and 50 cover this.

    http://www.rdfra.ie/pdf/regulations/R5.pdf
    "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by concussion View Post
      R5 sections 49 and 50 cover this.

      http://www.rdfra.ie/pdf/regulations/R5.pdf
      As Concussion says, when in doubt, consult the regulations...
      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
        As Concussion says, when in doubt, consult the regulations...
        Seems to be the only thing regulated in this country

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        • #5
          Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
          Seems to be the only thing regulated in this country
          So true....
          "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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          • #6
            Originally posted by techman1 View Post
            How are Units handling this around the country or is there even a directive on the issue? Thanks Folks.
            Everyone is treated the same

            The situation is if you have not attended the required amount of training in the previous training year you are posted by the Unit Commander to the non-effective strength.

            You are supposed to hand back all get and aren't allowed attend training.

            The unit/individual then has a number of options:
            1) apply to the GOC to be retaken on the effective strength
            2) return kit (or not) and remain on non-effective strength for the remained of your TOE
            3) apply for discharge
            4) unit can apply for your discharge after you spending 2 years on the non-effective list (if you have under 12 years service (and haven't applied to extend) the chances are your TOE would be up within the 2 years anyway (or close to it)).


            The only guidance is in DFR R5.

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            • #7
              thanks for the reference and replies lads.

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              • #8
                There are two main issues with Non-Effective('ness')

                1. Without it too many people build up on the strength of the unit, taking it quickly over the establishment. The PDF have never understood this(rather, why we have let it happen)

                2. Units carrying old sweats [ regardless of rank or commission ] on the Effective Strength, usually denying younger cpls a 3rd stripe or sgts a chance at CS
                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                • #9
                  The two year rule was only brought in the revision of R5 in October 2005

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                    The two year rule was only brought in the revision of R5 in October 2005
                    Some people have to go non effective for various reasons that cannot be helped, I dont think its a good idea for people to be kicked out of the unit because for a few years they couldn't make the necessary commitments.

                    Take me by example, last year I went non effective, got taken off the list and did a weeks camp. I've gone non effective this year again and I have to start the ball rolling to go "effective" again so I can do hopefully a weeks camp (or more if there is a god!). I'm busy with college during the year so me parading in any unit is physically impossible to do without spending a lot of time and money to do so. But a few years down the line I'll come out of college with a qualification that is seriously lacking in the DF. If I was told after finishing college that I have to redo recruit training for real or on paper I'd tell them to **** off!. My only hope is I have a real excuse for going non effective...unlike the rake of people that go non effective that are simply to lazy to head down to the barracks.

                    What exactly are the requirements to stay off the non effective list btw?
                    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                      What exactly are the requirements to stay off the non effective list btw?

                      see post number 2 above


                      Originally posted by concussion View Post
                      R5 sections 49 and 50 cover this.

                      http://www.rdfra.ie/pdf/regulations/R5.pdf
                      It is in the Administrative Instructions R5 Chapter 9
                      Last edited by Vickers; 23 January 2010, 22:10.
                      "Fellow-soldiers of the Irish Republican Army, I have just received a communication from Commandant Pearse calling on us to surrender and you will agree with me that this is the hardest task we have been called upon to perform during this eventful week, but we came into this fight for Irish Independence in obedience to the commands of our higher officers and now in obedience to their wishes we must surrender. I know you would, like myself, prefer to be with our comrades who have already fallen in the fight - we, too, should rather die in this glorious struggle than submit to the enemy." Volunteer Captain Patrick Holahan to 58 of his men at North Brunswick Street, the last group of the Four Courts Garrison to surrender, Sunday 30 April 1916.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                        Some people have to go non effective for various reasons that cannot be helped, I dont think its a good idea for people to be kicked out of the unit because for a few years they couldn't make the necessary commitments.

                        Take me by example, last year I went non effective, got taken off the list and did a weeks camp. I've gone non effective this year again and I have to start the ball rolling to go "effective" again so I can do hopefully a weeks camp (or more if there is a god!). I'm busy with college during the year so me parading in any unit is physically impossible to do without spending a lot of time and money to do so. But a few years down the line I'll come out of college with a qualification that is seriously lacking in the DF. If I was told after finishing college that I have to redo recruit training for real or on paper I'd tell them to **** off!. My only hope is I have a real excuse for going non effective...unlike the rake of people that go non effective that are simply to lazy to head down to the barracks.

                        What exactly are the requirements to stay off the non effective list btw?
                        While I can understand where you are coming from, there are plenty of reservists who can juggle college and maintain the "minimum" (2 parades a month) parade requirement. If your unit is not based in the same city as your college, there are plenty of units who are so you can always transfer (this should be particularly considered if you are going to be at low attendance levels for 4 years).

                        You may also find that your application to come off the non-effective list for a second time may not get the same favourable consideration.

                        Something you should watch out for this year is your TOE (Term of enlistment), it is usually every 3 years in the AR and 4 in the NSR. From the timelines you mentioned above I would presume that your TOE could be up this year, if you are on the non-effective list when it comes up you will be automatically discharged.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                          1. Without it too many people build up on the strength of the unit, taking it quickly over the establishment. The PDF have never understood this(rather, why we have let it happen)
                          In the East anyway, units haven't been aloud to be over establishment or hold personnel supernumary for a number of year.


                          Originally posted by The real Jack View Post
                          Some people have to go non effective for various reasons that cannot be helped, I dont think its a good idea for people to be kicked out of the unit because for a few years they couldn't make the necessary commitments.

                          Take me by example, last year I went non effective, got taken off the list and did a weeks camp. I've gone non effective this year again and I have to start the ball rolling to go "effective" again so I can do hopefully a weeks camp (or more if there is a god!). I'm busy with college during the year so me parading in any unit is physically impossible to do without spending a lot of time and money to do so. But a few years down the line I'll come out of college with a qualification that is seriously lacking in the DF. If I was told after finishing college that I have to redo recruit training for real or on paper I'd tell them to **** off!. My only hope is I have a real excuse for going non effective...unlike the rake of people that go non effective that are simply to lazy to head down to the barracks.

                          You can apply for a leave of absence.

                          When you application goes to the GOC (thats who it goes to by the way, the unit commander has the power to post you to the non-effective lis). It will state that you were posted non-effective another year.

                          There was a directive last year (can't remember if it came from the Director or OC EBRDF) that you had to had 1/2 the unpaid training for grat completed prior to doing any mandays. It is in the Director's directive on mandays (but it doesn't say yet how much unpaid training has to be completed).

                          So even if you are retaken on the effective strength you aren't guaranteed a camp (and then it is likely the max you will get in 7 days).

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                            While I can understand where you are coming from, there are plenty of reservists who can juggle college and maintain the "minimum" (2 parades a month) parade requirement. If your unit is not based in the same city as your college, there are plenty of units who are so you can always transfer (this should be particularly considered if you are going to be at low attendance levels for 4 years).
                            My college is in a different country!

                            Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                            You may also find that your application to come off the non-effective list for a second time may not get the same favourable consideration.
                            Yeah my cadre told me this when it happened the first time, he said that they will try their very best to prevent me being discharged but the excuses will only work a few times.

                            Originally posted by Bravo20 View Post
                            Something you should watch out for this year is your TOE (Term of enlistment), it is usually every 3 years in the AR and 4 in the NSR. From the timelines you mentioned above I would presume that your TOE could be up this year, if you are on the non-effective list when it comes up you will be automatically discharged.
                            This summer it'll be my 7th summer camp, then I'm in just over 6 years. Would that mean my TOE is up this year or would it have ended last year? I can't for the life of me remember the TOE I signed upon enlistment. But assuming I get off the list again this year it should hopefully not be a problem.
                            Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              You can apply for a leave of absence.
                              I would consider it but next year I'll have much more holidays in college so I wont have any problems keeping effective.

                              Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              There was a directive last year (can't remember if it came from the Director or OC EBRDF) that you had to had 1/2 the unpaid training for grat completed prior to doing any mandays. It is in the Director's directive on mandays (but it doesn't say yet how much unpaid training has to be completed).
                              I think that directive didn't get to my cadre office, I had one parade then a weeks camp, after camp we dont have any parades for a while so I couldn't do any more.

                              Originally posted by DeV View Post
                              So even if you are retaken on the effective strength you aren't guaranteed a camp (and then it is likely the max you will get in 7 days).
                              A lot of bods who are keeping effective only got one week last year so I can't hope for much.
                              Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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